Chris_Baker Posted 28 June , 2013 Share Posted 28 June , 2013 I spotted this headstone yesterday and took a photo meaning to look him up, as I was intrigued at how a 17 year-old could become a Lieutenant of the Royal Field Artillery and be serving overseas. But on looking at the CWGC database I see they have no age for him. Curious. http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/150319/WELD,%20EDWARD%20JOSEPH Does anyone have a copy of the original Lijssenthoek register? Is his age given there? I see a birth to the right name was registered in the last quarter of 1897, so the age of 17 could be correct. He had a service record (WO 339/43313) so I might take a look just out of interest. Has anyone ever looked at this officer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyH Posted 28 June , 2013 Share Posted 28 June , 2013 Chris, The excellent Lijssenthoek cemetery website has some more info including a photo of what looks a very young man : http://www.lijssenth...oseph-weld.html If you contact the website they will probably give you an e-mail for the family member who supplied the extra photo etc (they did for a soldier I was researching) ps : seems to be born in Croydon last 1/4 1897 BillyH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 28 June , 2013 Share Posted 28 June , 2013 Its curious how the cemetery records says age 18 and the headstone 17 - I wonder if he had lied about his age. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 28 June , 2013 Author Share Posted 28 June , 2013 Not easy for a commissioned man. I believe that birth certificates were required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 28 June , 2013 Share Posted 28 June , 2013 From The Graphic, October 16, 1915. Sorry about the quality, that's just the way I have it. Cheers. Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 28 June , 2013 Share Posted 28 June , 2013 1901 census has him aged 3. Seems to be missing from the 1911. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Riley Posted 28 June , 2013 Share Posted 28 June , 2013 Might he be listed as being at a boarding school in 1911. That is just a shot in the dark as I don't know how the system worked for those away at school. I would have though that if he has been commissioned at 17, he must have has some OTC experience. If he is a Weld related to the Weld family of Somerset or the Weld-Blundells of Ince Blundell (Merseyside) this might be Ampleforth or Stonyhurst or possibly even one of the Catholic schools in France (but this would not have had an OTC) Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 28 June , 2013 Author Share Posted 28 June , 2013 I'm even more intrigued now. I shall report back when I've seen his service record next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrier Posted 28 June , 2013 Share Posted 28 June , 2013 He may have come from The Weld family of Lulworth Castle in Dorset Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Riley Posted 28 June , 2013 Share Posted 28 June , 2013 He may have come from The Weld family of Lulworth Castle in Dorset My mistake, I thought it was Somerset. They are aclually related to the Weld Blundells of Ince Blundell. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rflory Posted 28 June , 2013 Share Posted 28 June , 2013 2nd Lieut. Edward Joseph Weld Born in 1897, the son of Mr. Joseph Weld and Mrs. Weld of The Dingle, Pinner, Middlesex Educated at Wimbledon College; at St Anthony's, Eastbourne and at Stonyhurst College from 1912 to August 1914 Left school in August 1914 'to take up a commission in the Special Reserve of the Royal Field Artillery For the next six months completed his course of instruction as a gunner Commissioned 2nd Lieut., RFA SR on 27 Jan 15 Sent to France and Flanders in March 1915 and posted to an ammunition column Later posted to 72nd Battery, RFA in which he was serving when he died In the early morning of 26th September 1915 'while moving down the road to a gun position . . . to assist in repelling an attack. . . he was struck down and died on the following evening after an abortive attempt by the surgeons to remove the bullet.' He was evidently returning to the guns after eating his evening meal at the officer's mess when he was severely wounded in the stomach by a rifle bullet fired from the German trenches some 2,000 yards away. He was taken by motor ambulance to the 18th Field Ambulance. Buried in Lijssenthoek Military Cemetery two miles SW of Poperinghe. Sources: Stonyhurst War Record; The Antonian Magazine, Easter 1917. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maricourt Posted 28 June , 2013 Share Posted 28 June , 2013 Spot on, Ian - he was at Stoneyhurst and Dick has just pipped me to the post with his details. There is also a fragment of a letter from his Battery major that relates how he received his fatal wound: He was moving down the road to the gun position with his men, to assist in repelling an attack, when he was struck by a rifle bullet, which was fired from the German trenches some 2,000 yards away. Sgt Greenwood, of the 72nd Battery, carried him back to a house, and medical aid was at once given. The bullet entered the lower part of the body and did not come out. He was taken away by a motor ambulance at about 8 pm, and sent down to the 18th Field Ambulance. The wound is a severe one, but he was quite conscious when he arrived at the Field Ambulance. We all miss him very much, as he was always very cheery and bright. The men of his section speak highly of his pluck and grit. I am sure you must be very proud of your young and plucky son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Riley Posted 28 June , 2013 Share Posted 28 June , 2013 Might he be listed as being at a boarding school in 1911. That is just a shot in the dark as I don't know how the system worked for those away at school. I would have though that if he has been commissioned at 17, he must have has some OTC experience. If he is a Weld related to the Weld family of Somerset or the Weld-Blundells of Ince Blundell (Merseyside) this might be Ampleforth or Stonyhurst or possibly even one of the Catholic schools in France (but this would not have had an OTC) Ian I have even impressed myself with the Stonyhurst shot. Boys doing the jobs of men and probably pretty well, and still older than many of the the midshipmen at Jutland or Trafalgar. A late entry to Stonyhurst, though, at about 15 years old. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 28 June , 2013 Author Share Posted 28 June , 2013 Wonderful stuff - thank you all. But how did he get to be a Lieutenant serving overseas at that age? What was the minimum age for a commission in the Special Reserve of Officers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maricourt Posted 28 June , 2013 Share Posted 28 June , 2013 Ian - I've just tried to PM you but your box is full! I'd like to get in touch [we have met before!]. Regards ... Maricourt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Riley Posted 28 June , 2013 Share Posted 28 June , 2013 Wonderful stuff - thank you all. But how did he get to be a Lieutenant serving overseas at that age? What was the minimum age for a commission in the Special Reserve of Officers? Were not all 2Lts serving in France and Flanders automatically promoted to full Lieutenant at an early stage of the war? I am sure I have read that somewhere; maybe in the McGilchrist history of the Liverpool Scottish Ian Afternote: A search of the Regimental History an dthe War Diary provides nothing - maybe I am imaging things. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Riley Posted 28 June , 2013 Share Posted 28 June , 2013 Ian - I've just tried to PM you but your box is full! I'd like to get in touch [we have met before!]. Regards ... Maricourt Penmaenmawr, RWF and North Wales rings serious bells. Is the link 'archival'? Would you mind using the contact e-mail address (it comes straight to me) at www.liverpoolscottish.org.uk until I get round to emptying my In-Box here. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maricourt Posted 28 June , 2013 Share Posted 28 June , 2013 Spot on, again, Ian - I will email you tomorrow! Maricourt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolt968 Posted 28 June , 2013 Share Posted 28 June , 2013 Van Emden mentions a number of 17 year old officers in "Boy Soldiers". Indeed this case so matched what he had said that I looked the section up to see if Edward Weld was one of those mentioned. He's not. According to van Emden applications for commissions by men under 21 had to be countersigned by both parents and at least one responsible person who had known the applicant for at least four years. In addition to vouching for the applicant's moral character it was also supposed to prevent underage applicants. Apparently it didn't. Also nepotism and influence were used. Roger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Riley Posted 28 June , 2013 Share Posted 28 June , 2013 I have this note in my diary which I have not edited. I am not sure of the sources though the first looks like CWGC i think that the second may be a roll compiled by volunteers in Lancaster from the Lancaster Military Heritage Group In any case the linked page has more detail and Bates seems to have been commissioned directly from his school OTC, something I have come across before. How his father felt as 2ic of the battalion, I know not. Rudyard Kipling might have been able to tell us more about the experience if not the specific case. Not sure how I came across him; it may be in the Forum. The intention is to visit Aeroplane Cemetery when I am next in Ieper Ian [OFFICER] STANLEY KNIGHT BATES Lieutenant 1st/5th Bn King's Own (Royal Lancaster Regt.) who died on the Sunday, 09/05/1915 Age: 17 Son of Lt. Col. John Henry Bates, T.D., 1st/5th Bn. King's Own Royal Lancaster Regt., and Sarah Eleanor Bates, of Fir Bank, Penrith, Cumberland. Gazetted 10th Aug., 1914, from Royal Lancaster Grammar School Cadet Corps. Native of Morecambe, Lancs. AEROPLANE CEMETERY, Ref: II. B. 41, Ieper, West-Vlaanderen, Belgium [Officer] Stanley Knight Bates. LT. King's Own[Royal Lancaster Regt.] 5th Bn. [Territorial] Died 09/05/15. Kiled in Action. Source: Soldiers Died in the Great War 1914-1919 Bates Stanley W Lieutenant 5th Battalion Kings Own Royal Lancaster Regiment killed in action, 1915, age 17, address Penrith, educated Lancaster Royal Grammar School, the youngest full lieutenant in the British Army, a keen athlete. Father Major Bates, second in command of the same Battalion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BereniceUK Posted 12 September , 2016 Share Posted 12 September , 2016 (edited) Lieutenant S. K. Bates. News of the death in action of Lieut. Stanley Knight Bates, the 5th King's Own Royal Lancaster Regiment, son of Major Bates, of Fir Bank, Fell-lane, Penrith, manager of the Bank of Liverpool at Penrith, and formerly of Morecambe, has occasioned great sorrow. The deceased was an Old Boy of Lancaster Grammar School, being an Ashton House exhibitioner and prefect of the School House. He took keen interest in the work of the O.T.C. from its commencement, obtained his colours in the Rugby team, and was also in the school cricket team. At the outbreak of the war he obtained a commission in the regiment of which his father was the second in command, and crossed with them to France on February 14th. (From the Morecambe Visitor) Edited 12 September , 2016 by BereniceUK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 22 March , 2018 Share Posted 22 March , 2018 My daughter attends Stonyhurst SMH and they are visiting The Somme this June. All the students in her year (she’s 12) have been give the name of a soldier who served to study and they will be visiting his grave. She has been given Edward Joseph Weld. She has started to research him. If anyone has any information regarding Edward Weld then I would love to hear from you. Many thanks. Jen Lancaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 22 March , 2018 Share Posted 22 March , 2018 https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/10778390 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyH Posted 22 March , 2018 Share Posted 22 March , 2018 52 minutes ago, Jen Lancaster said: My daughter attends Stonyhurst SMH and they are visiting The Somme this June. All the students in her year (she’s 12) have been give the name of a soldier who served to study and they will be visiting his grave. She has been given Edward Joseph Weld. She has started to research him. If anyone has any information regarding Edward Weld then I would love to hear from you. Many thanks. Jen Lancaster Have a look at the link in post #2 BillyH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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