Sally Enzer Posted 26 June , 2013 Share Posted 26 June , 2013 I am researching a soldier who enlisted in Liverpool in November 1915. Along the top of his joining up papers there is a title heading which reads 'Liverpool Coopers'. Can anyone enlighten me as to what this means? Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgardiner1418 Posted 26 June , 2013 Share Posted 26 June , 2013 Sally, Along with the possibility he could have been connected with barrels, Coopers of Liverpool was also a well known shop selling the more exotic food stuffs and did I think supply the upmarket liners sailing from the port. My great Uncle was in their football team. All the best, Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sally Enzer Posted 27 June , 2013 Author Share Posted 27 June , 2013 Thanks for your messages. The person I am researching was a portrait painter in Liverpool who eventually enlisted in Nov 1915 into the Royal Army Medical Corps as a medical orderly. I wondered if the Liverpool Coopers was the place where he enlisted - some sort of administrative HQ? At this stage I am unsure why he chose/was put nto the RAMC. A large group of London artists and sculptors did join the RAMC in London but there seems little other reason apart from possibly wishing to be a non-combatant. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Riley Posted 27 June , 2013 Share Posted 27 June , 2013 Cooper's shop in Church Street had offices and showrooms above. i think that i recall from the 1960s that bthere was a separate entrance for "Cooper's Buildings". My father worked in the shop as a grocery and provision apprentice (despatched by his father from the family business to learn the trade) there before WW2. It may well be that there was a recruiting outstation above the main very large shop. Somewhere there is a list of Liverpool Recuiting offices. but I can't find it. It was a very high class grocers and provision merchant as well as other stuff (I think I have seen a photo of their cigar showroom or maybe that wsas just an exotic way of smoking the bacon). A member of the RAMC was (and is) not strictly a non-comabatant. At the time of WW1 they were entitled under the Geneva Convention to carry weapons for personal protection and the protection of their patients. That at least is my reading of the Great War Forum thread here.(CLICK). Practice seemed however to vary. There was a range course prescribed in the 1909 Musketry manual for the RAMC. Captain Noel Chavasse VC and Bar RAMC carried a sword intended as they wrere in 1914 to be used as a weapon and not a piece of cermonial gear (not on active setrvice although it may have reached France in 1914). It can be seen on display in Liverpool provenanced by the family. Regimental stretcher bearers (ie soldiers of a battalion or whatever unit) were definitely not given non-combatant status or protection under the Geneva convention. According to the Liverpool Scottish history they carried their rifles ior not depending on the conditions; it was ofen that they simply got in the way. There were specific non-combatant units, I think, used behind the lines in admin and logistic tasks. I am interested in your artist. Was he a member of the Liverpool Artists Club (they don't use an apostrophe, before the green ink grammar gang set on me!)? Did he survive the war? Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sally Enzer Posted 28 June , 2013 Author Share Posted 28 June , 2013 Hello Ian My artist is Gilbert Rogers and he is a former President of the Liverpool Arts Club and Liver Sketching Club and he did survive the war. From 1918 he organised a group of RAMC artists to create paintings, sculptures and models of RAMC work in the Great War (in the front line and the home front) for the Imperial War Museum Crystal Palace Victory exhibition of 1920. I am currently looking for any of his descendants who still might live in the Liverpool area but no luck yet. I put an ad in the Old Pals section of the Liverpool Echo and did get some replies from people but no family members. Gilbert's youngest brother was Guy Rogers of Guy Rogers Furniture Company, Speke. Sally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggers Posted 28 June , 2013 Share Posted 28 June , 2013 Sally Thank you for giving the name. As a Scouser I had not heard of Gilbert Rogers and so put his name into Google. What amazing paintings! Ian should know something relating to the Artists Club, once he surfaces from marking exams. Have you tried the Liverpool & S. West Lancs Family History Society Forum about descendants? D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sally Enzer Posted 30 June , 2013 Author Share Posted 30 June , 2013 D - thanks for your advice - I will try them. Sally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Riley Posted 30 June , 2013 Share Posted 30 June , 2013 These are briliiant pictures. I will enquire at the Artists Club but am not sure if that is the same as Liverpool Arts Club and Liver Sketching Club. I have also passed on the link to the Museum of Liverpool. I will be interested to know if the Walker Art Gallery (National Museums Liverpool) holds any of his work. Back to the last 20 papers! Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sally Enzer Posted 2 July , 2013 Author Share Posted 2 July , 2013 Hi Ian I am in contact with David Brown of the Liver Sketching Club and at Easter he took me to visit the Liverpool Artists Club and we found the portraits of both Gilbert and Guy. Its a fascinating place and has portraits of all its past Presidents. Still no progress with any of Gilbert's descendants sadly. Am planning to visit Liverpool Library and Archives in the Summer. I am surprised there is no information available on Guy Rogers Furniture as I gather it was a large concern which supplied Heals in London with quality furniture (it closed in the 1970's). Gilbert was very involved in the furniture trade organisations both in London and Liverpool in his later life. Gilbert Rogers' war work is stunning. We had two of his large oils in the Officers Mess and HQ Building at Keogh Barracks, now Defence Medical Training Group (formerly RAMC), the Wellcome Foundation has one piece but the majority of his work in now in storage at the IWM. I hope some of it might re-emerge in the IWM FWW centenary exhibition next year. I am waiting to get back into the Archives there - they have been closed since last December whilst renovations are being done - so frustrating! Sally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 2 July , 2013 Share Posted 2 July , 2013 On 27/06/2013 at 06:47, Sally Enzer said: I am researching a soldier who enlisted in Liverpool in November 1915. Along the top of his joining up papers there is a title heading which reads 'Liverpool Coopers'. Can anyone enlighten me as to what this means? Many thanks Subject covered in an earlier thread -may be of use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbrydon Posted 12 July , 2013 Share Posted 12 July , 2013 There was a connection between Coopers the store and the military. Colonel John Cooney was manager of the firm from 1896,a position he still held in1911 according to "A dictionary of Edwardian Biography- Liverpool" At that time Cooney was also Commanding Officer of the 8th (Irish ) battalion, Kings Liverpool Regiment. Perhaps he later allowed part of the firms premises to be used for recruiting purposes. ( I wonder if any other old scousers remember the system at Coopers whereby payment was sent to cashier at a central location and change and a receipt was sent back by the same system. ) P.B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 22 July , 2013 Share Posted 22 July , 2013 Coopers in the 30's showing entrance to Cooper Buildings . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggers Posted 22 July , 2013 Share Posted 22 July , 2013 P.B. I think that was the overhead wire system, also used at Millets along the road and Bunneys, opposite Coopers. Either George Henry Lee or Bon Marche or both used a rival system of vacuum tubes, equally fascinating to small boys. D Johnboy A great picture- I love the advert for the "wild haggis". D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Riley Posted 22 July , 2013 Share Posted 22 July , 2013 Horne Brothers had a vacuum system Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingerfreak Posted 30 May , 2023 Share Posted 30 May , 2023 (edited) To go back to the RAMC. My realtive joined the 96th Fd Ambulance in 1915. he was from Wigan, and so were several others. I carried out research on the service numbers of men who served with the 96th,97th and 98th Field Ambulance (this is still ongoing). From the service records that remain,between the 23rd August 1915 and the 18th September 1915 all of the RAMC service numbers begin with 67***. In each case the recruiting Sgt was Sgt. Didlock, every man who enlisted at Coopers in Liverpool has the words 'Liverpool Coopers' and a seperate number annotated on his service record. The earliest no I have is Liverpool Coopers 428, the last number I have is 790, this was issued on the 13th September 1915. There are 14 RAMC men in this group. Therefore, i would assume that men who joined the infantry etc cover the other Liverpool Cooper numbers. As a side note, I don't think that this is an isolated case, I have an RAMC man who has 'Manchester No 511'. There are also a number of department stores that have their own books of rememberance for staff that did not return. From this evidence I would argue that the large department stores in the major cities opened up offices to deal with the recruiting problem. Regards Ginge Edited 30 May , 2023 by Gingerfreak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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