Medals worn "ahead" of South African Medals in 1914

[rolt968]

I have been looking at a picture in archives today of what I think are training or base sergeants and colour sergeants possibly in 1915.

Most are middle aged (even late middle aged) so I suspect they could include long serving territorials (ex-volunteers) and regulars/reservists/ex-regulars. Many are wearing medal ribbons. The largest number of ribbons, I think is four. Most of them have at least one of the South Africa (Boer War) medals (some both). Identifying the others is tricky from a faded sepia photograph.

I would be grateful if anyone could help me with:

1. In what order would a soldier of 1914 wear campaign medals?

2. Apart from gallantry medals, what other medals might he wear ahead (as we look at the photo on the left) of his Boer War medals?

3. Where in order would he wear any long service medal?

Many thanks

Roger.

Edited 31 May , 2013 by rolt968

[Old Owl]

Hi Roger,

As you look at the photo a soldier may be wearing a QSA, KSA, IGS'08 and an LS&GC. It is difficult to say without seeing the photograph but there are several other possibilities: QSA, AGS, IGS'08 and LS&GC--the LS&GC always comes at the end. Of course if the unit is not entitled to Boer War medals then another possibility is IGS'54, IGS'95, China 1900, IGS'08---infact there are various other possibilities.

Which unit is depicted in the photo? This may lead to a definite medal combination being described, rather than just guesswork, or can you post a copy of the photo here on the Forum?

Robert

[rflory]

Up to the Great War Coronation and Jubilee Medals were worn before campaign medals.

[rolt968]

Hi Roger,

As you look at the photo a soldier may be wearing a QSA, KSA, IGS'08 and an LS&GC. It is difficult to say without seeing the photograph but there are several other possibilities: QSA, AGS, IGS'08 and LS&GC--the LS&GC always comes at the end. Of course if the unit is not entitled to Boer War medals then another possibility is IGS'54, IGS'95, China 1900, IGS'08---infact there are various other possibilities.

Which unit is depicted in the photo? This may lead to a definite medal combination being described, rather than just guesswork, or can you post a copy of the photo here on the Forum?

Robert

Unfortunately I can't post. It belongs to the Archives.

The men are all from the Black Watch. It is possibly associated the 5th battalion since there is some association with Forfar, but it's not clear what.

The men have different combinations of medals. I'm sure of either the QSA or KSA or both, but in one or two cases there is one ribbon "ahead" of the South Africa ribbon(s).

Roger.

Roger.

Up to the Great War Coronation and Jubilee Medals were worn before campaign medals.

Thank you, I hadn't thought about those.

Roger.

[Old Owl]

If the unit is 5th Black Watch then the most likely is, as Dick has pointed out, either a Coronation or Jubilee medal. You should be able to tell from the shape of the ribbon if this is the case, the only other possibility is that if some of these men are ex-regulars, if so then it could be the Eygpt medal, and so they would have the Khedives Star after a QSA, KSA.

The Black Watch do not appear to have served in India prior to the Boer War--or at least not during any of the campaigns in India.

[rolt968]

Many thanks to everyone. That's all very useful.

Roger.

[gordon92]

Concerning the possibility that some of the 5th Black Watch me were ex-regulars, the 1st Bn Black Watch served in India 1897 through 1901 at Subathu, Sitapour, and Kamptee before departing for S. Africa.

[rolt968]

Concerning the possibility that some of the 5th Black Watch me were ex-regulars, the 1st Bn Black Watch served in India 1897 through 1901 at Subathu, Sitapour, and Kamptee before departing for S. Africa.

I won't get another look at the picture until Tuesday. One or two the men in it look in very late middle age. I think there may be at least one IGS, presumably dating from the 1890s.

It is quite an intriguing photograph:

All the men are sergeants, staff sergeants or similar.

There are two men in it wearing four reversed chevrons on both cuffs (both drum majors?). One of them appears in another related photograph of a pipe band where he is the drum major. (If I remember rightly the latter has no medal ribbons.)

All men except one are kilted and where they can be seen are wearing the five tassel sporran and have rosettes on their kilts. Where they can be seen, all are wearing khaki spats, BW hose tops and flashes. I didn't managed to decipher anything definite in their shoulder titles. All are wearing dark glengarries with Black Watch badges.

The three men in the centre of the front row (one of four chevron men and two staff sergeants (crown above three chevrons)) are wearing Slade Wallace belts. (None of the others is wearing a belt.)

All are wearing "cutaway" SD jackets.

One of the men in the back row (who has no medal ribbons) is wearing trousers of some kind (you can't see much of them between the men seated in front). He has a cutaway SD jacket, but this has been tailored from the simplified SD jacket (no pleats on pocket or rifle protection patches). He is wearing crossed muskets above his sergeant's chevrons (musketry instructor?).

I think that one of the men in the front row has a crown and crossed muskets above three chevrons.

As I said more than half of them are well into middle age. Many have medal ribbons.

Roger.

[Old Owl]

I think there may be at least one IGS, presumably dating from the 1890s.

Roger.

The Black Watch may have served in India during the 19th century, but they had no entitlement for the IGS'54 or IGS'95 medals, unless of course they were attached to another unit.