hen190782 Posted 25 May , 2013 Share Posted 25 May , 2013 Good Afternoon I am working with Orangelil who is managing the Castleton Lantern Project (http://castletonlanterns.co.uk/?tag=lantern-slides) I have cropped insignia/patch/badge details from several of the slides and am looking for help to identify what they mean - apologies in advance for the quality! There will be another couple of topics with other images. Ref 03 LHS -Service Stripe? Ref 03 RHS - Wounded Stripe? Ref 04 RHS - meaning of Royal Navy insignia Ref 06 LHS - Service Stripes? Ref 08 - Medal Ribbon? Thanks Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARABIS Posted 25 May , 2013 Share Posted 25 May , 2013 Nigel, Ref 04. Stoker Branch with 3 year Good Conduct badge. Regards, David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hen190782 Posted 25 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 25 May , 2013 David Good man! Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hen190782 Posted 25 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 25 May , 2013 David There is another picture of a man with the same insignia but on the opposite arms! Is this unusual? BTW, is the "stripe" the Good Conduct patch? Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARABIS Posted 25 May , 2013 Share Posted 25 May , 2013 David There is another picture of a man with the same insignia but on the opposite arms! Is this unusual? BTW, is the "stripe" the Good Conduct patch? Nigel Yes, the "stripe" is a Good Conduct badge. Could the photo you mention have been reversed? The rule is that non-substantive badges [i.e. "trade badges"] are worn on the right sleeve, rating & good conduct badges are worn on the left sleeve. David. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepoy Posted 25 May , 2013 Share Posted 25 May , 2013 The medal ribbon is probably for the Meritorious Service Medal - Is the recipient wearing "Hospital Blues"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hen190782 Posted 26 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 26 May , 2013 David - could be picture has been reversed. Sepoy - Thanks, it is difficult for men to tell whether it is hospital blues but in the full picture the man (he has the bear of an officer!) is wearing a shirt, tie, jacket and cross-belt (Sam Browne?) but there is no insignia on the lapels or on the epaulettes ... does this description help? Thanks Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 26 May , 2013 Share Posted 26 May , 2013 David - could be picture has been reversed. Sepoy - Thanks, it is difficult for men to tell whether it is hospital blues but in the full picture the man (he has the bear of an officer!) is wearing a shirt, tie, jacket and cross-belt (Sam Browne?) but there is no insignia on the lapels or on the epaulettes ... does this description help? Thanks Nigel Tell me it isn't true that only officers could have bears! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hen190782 Posted 26 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 26 May , 2013 Grumpy Well-spotted ... I meant "bearing of an officer" Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 28 May , 2013 Share Posted 28 May , 2013 Two vertical brass bars are both wound stripes. The medal ribbon looks more like the three white vertical stripes of the military medal (MM). The MSM was something awarded for merit to very old soldiers who had already achieved a long service and good conduct and unlikely to be worn on hospital blues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hen190782 Posted 28 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 28 May , 2013 Frogsmile Thanks, this is the full image for the medal ribbon: Does this help? Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 28 May , 2013 Share Posted 28 May , 2013 Frogsmile Thanks, this is the full image for the medal ribbon: Does this help? Nigel Not really no. I can see now that he is not wearing hospital blues, but service dress and Sam Browne. He has the look of a ranker about him and it still seems possible that the ribbon is for an MM, but the seemingly white lines now appear further apart. Examination through a magnifier of the sort I mentioned might help, especially if there are other ribbons present that are not currently readily apparent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 28 May , 2013 Share Posted 28 May , 2013 It does not convince as an MM, does it? RSM possibly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 28 May , 2013 Share Posted 28 May , 2013 The only thing I can think of is the Indian Mutiny Medal, but - from a Great War perspective - he is obviously way too young. On the other hand, given his SD is a bit sloppy and has a colonial feel to it, the photo could be a lot earlier and might IMM be a fair, albeit long shot after all? Cheers, GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hen190782 Posted 28 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 28 May , 2013 Grumpy - excuse my ignorance (and bear with me ) but what does RSM stand for (I presume that in not Regimental Sergeant Major!!) Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hen190782 Posted 28 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 28 May , 2013 I thought that only officers wore Sam Browne belts? Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 28 May , 2013 Share Posted 28 May , 2013 Indeed Regimental Sergeant Major. I thought that only officers wore Sam Browne belts? Nigel Nah... senior NCOs too. Cheers, GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hen190782 Posted 28 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 28 May , 2013 GT - did not realise that there was a medal ribbons associated with specific ranks ... the depth of my ignorance knows no bounds Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 29 May , 2013 Share Posted 29 May , 2013 It does not convince as an MM, does it? RSM possibly? Yes I think RSM is a good bet. The material of his jacket is coarse even though there is a rever and that moustache screams ranker. Warrant officers (after 1915 of just the first class) wore the Sam Browne, as opposed to NCOs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 29 May , 2013 Share Posted 29 May , 2013 It's not a Military Medal Ribbon. Not with those three equidistant stripes at edges and middle- where the white stripes would be concentrated if an MM, which does not have edge stripes. More likely, as raised, to be a Meritorious Service Medal. If we wanted to be utterly left field, and get into the arguments about orthochromatic film reversing colours, it could be a 1911 Coronation Medal (Police Issue) which was scarlet with three narrow navy blue stripes - one at each edge and one in the centre. But that's very left field. I would suggest being worn by a Regimental Sergeant Major of a unit which did not wear collar badges: there may - just may - be a black button at the top of that visible shoulder strap, implying a Rifle unit such as the King's Royal Rifle Corps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hen190782 Posted 29 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 29 May , 2013 Staffs Thanks "orthochromatic film reversing colours" - do not even know what this means, let alone be able to construct an argument! Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 29 May , 2013 Share Posted 29 May , 2013 A photo taken with orthochromatic film as was commonly used around the time of WW1 will render certain light colours dark and other dark colours light, thus how they appear in a finished photograph is often quite dramically different to the colours they would actually appear in person, eg: http://postimage.org/image/1iwrushes/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 30 May , 2013 Share Posted 30 May , 2013 Ortho film was not replaced by modern film until c. 1925. As a crude guide to its behaviour rendering colours into grey shades: Red end spectrum very dark, orange dark, yellow still dark, green mid range, blue light, indigo very light. To which you need to consider: pastel shades [ie with white in the colour] throw a bit lighter than expected; shades with black added throw a bit darker. Plenty on orthochromatic film rendering if you Google. Its necessary background to studying period photos. 4thGordons of this parish has done a lot of work on the subject Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 30 May , 2013 Share Posted 30 May , 2013 It's not a Military Medal Ribbon. Not with those three equidistant stripes at edges and middle- where the white stripes would be concentrated if an MM, which does not have edge stripes. More likely, as raised, to be a Meritorious Service Medal. If we wanted to be utterly left field, and get into the arguments about orthochromatic film reversing colours, it could be a 1911 Coronation Medal (Police Issue) which was scarlet with three narrow navy blue stripes - one at each edge and one in the centre. But that's very left field. I would suggest being worn by a Regimental Sergeant Major of a unit which did not wear collar badges: there may - just may - be a black button at the top of that visible shoulder strap, implying a Rifle unit such as the King's Royal Rifle Corps. Yes from your breakdown I can see that it's not an MM now. You also make a good point about the possibility of a Rifle regiment connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hen190782 Posted 30 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2013 Staffs and Frogsmile Thanks, given the Belfast connection, I would err on the side of Royal Irish Rifles. Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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