VIOLATION OF MAGNIFICENT GREAT WAR MEMORIAL

[alangerrard]

In the year prior to worldwide centenary commemorations of The Great War, the community of Fenton (Stoke-on-Trent) is asking people the world over to please, please do what you can to prevent a tragedy occurring in a "forgotten" town.

Fenton People Need Your Help:

Fenton's magnificent memorial to The Great War is at risk of destruction. The memorial is made from Minton tiles and is around 4m x 3m in dimension. It was unveiled in 1926 and features the names of 498 men from the Fenton area of the six towns of Stoke-on-Trent. Fenton has long been known as the forgotten town of Stoke-on-Trent after being omitted from Arnold Bennett's novel Anna of the Five Towns, and this tag has stuck.

The memorial is housed in Fenton's historic former town hall, which up until recently used to operate as a Magistrates' Courts. It has now been put up for sale by The Ministry of Justice, who have refused to enter into dialogue with the community over the memorial's future. The memorial's size and nature is such that it could not be moved - it is embedded into the very fabric of the town hall.

NEITHER THE MEMORIAL NOR THE TOWN HALL IS LISTED.

The people of Fenton are at a loss and require ALL support to fight this injustice. At a time when the world is beginning to remember the sacrifices made by millions during the Great War of 1914-1918, how ironic that a Ministry of Justice should be about to violate the memory of 498 courageous heroes. And how ironic that the government of the Big Society, of communities and Community Asset Transfers should be so reluctant to enter into negotiations with a community gravely concerned about its most prized heritage building

We need your help in generating enough worldwide public awareness of this outrage to persuade the Ministry of Justice into handing back our memorial before it is lost forever. To make matters worse two additional, splendid memorials, one to the Boer War and another to the Second World War, are also at risk!

The Ministry of Justice can be contacted directly at general.queries@justice.gsi.gov.uk or by telephone at 020 3334 3555.

Stoke-on-Trent City Council can help by placing the town hall on its protected asset list under the Community Right to Bid scheme. This doesn't seem straight forward however as it seems the town hall may not fit the criteria required for its addition to the list. For instance, for a building to be granted protected status it needs to have served a function for the benefit of the community; at present its former function of Magistrates' Courts labels it as "administrative" use. And as buildings which fulfil administrative roles offer no direct service to the community their addition to the list is precluded. We are currently trying to persuade Stoke-on-Trent City Council that it should make every effort to recognise a Magistrates' Courts' community function so that Fenton Town Hall can be added to the list - but we are not hopeful. Contact Stoke-on-Trent City Council at 01782 234234.

The community is attempting to raise funds to place a bid for the building. Any donations and pledges would be most appreciated. People and organisations can make pledges at fentonward@hotmail.co.uk or by calling 07809 505244, 01782 844222 or 01782 744112

Kind regards.

Alan Gerrard

https://www.facebook...133172696880784

07809 505244, 07809 505245

On behalf of Fenton Community Association

Edited 25 May , 2013 by Keith Roberts
Font amended

[KevinBattle]

Wow! Emotive stuff!

Pity the gist is lost in such small typeface.

Try posting again into Notepad and editing so it is shown full size.

A Name was added in 2010 to the Memorial, so it must have been approved by the Ministry of Justice at that time, so they are aware of it being a WW1 Memorial

see http://www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk/Home-town-honour/story-12497697-detail/story.html#axzz2UKmV2zQ9

Court manager Karen Bowers said: "This is the first name that has been added to our memorial.

"I don't think too many people know about it. We sometimes get requests from schools to come and have a look."

Ivan Ash, of Nettlebanks Stone Masons, added CSM Harp's name to the memorial. He said: "I recently added another name to the memorial at Longton Park.

"It's just the right thing to do. They did their part, now it's up to us."

However was nothing done for WW2 Fallen?

Have you contacted the Royal British Legion in Fenton?

What about the National Inventory of War Memorials?

I understand from a quick Google that there are three Boer War Memorial plaques also in the Town Hall, don't they deserve to be included?

http://www.roll-of-honour.com/Staffordshire/FentonBoer.html

I wish you well, but aren't you pushing at the hinge side of an open door? I'm sure the MoJ will respond to a concerted appeal, and the City Council need to get involved to ensure it's preserved.

[keithmroberts]

I have amended the post to address the font size. It is unfortunately a common issue when text is pasted into the forum from external documents.

On the subject - Kevin raises the right points, it is important to advise the national Inventory of War memorials, and the RBL. It might also be worth contacting the nearest branch of the Western Front Association, and it definitely makes sense to write to key political figures - starting in Downing Street, the MP who is the PM's representative on centenary matters fis best disregarded - write to the PM, when he passes it over it is more likely to get a reply, and to the Minister for Justice - at his head office.

You have sounded the alarm bell, I'm sure that if you aim high, you will get reactions. Finally, don't forget the press. A question or two from national newspapers can work wonders.

Keith

[Ian Riley]

Alan, welcome to the Forum and I hope that you manage to get some helpful advice. I can feel the boiling frustration.

Firstly, what an excellent and appropriate memorial.

Time for your MP to show some leadership with the MoJ. Local councillors? (Apologies for repeating some ideas - my post had to be rewritten after trying to post). Is there a named Heritage officer in the local authority?

However, I think that this memorial could be moved in the hands of skilled conservators although clearly the ceramic material poses a problem. Expensive operation though. The War Memorials Trust are not usually slow to letter-bomb those threatening memorials. In itself, it must be an item of interest to the Potteries Museum (sorry forgotten the proper name). Might this be relevant to funding from HLF for their WW1 project. I sense though that you your group wishes to maintain the integrity of the Town Hall.

There does not yet seem to be an 'outrage' although I can see that suddenly announced plans to turn the building into theme pub (I suppose this is how rumours start) might give little notice to react.

Placing the building in community ownership may create further risks in years to come; this needs to be taken over by an organisation that has cast iron certainty of continuance or one whose responsibilities would have to be taken over by another body should the original be dissolved

The Heritage Lottery Fund might be worth looking at though it may be that this particular project might not qualify for their Great War Funding project.

Any chance of getting WWRD Holdings involved (I think it all stands for Wedgwood Waterford Royal Doulton), the successor to Minton, then to Royal Doulton though these are clearly difficult times for the luxury ceramic market

Ian

[Steven Broomfield]

Not knowing the political map of the area I can't comment with certainty, however, one Stoke MP (Tristram Hunt) is, I believe, an historian, and another, Rob Flello (whom, name-dropping shamelessly, I recently met) has an interest in military history.

[NigelS]

Alan, another possible avenue of attack: the Sunday Telegraph has been running a campaign - 'Lest we Forget' - to identify and draw attention to war memorials under threat (Click for a thread which gives links on articles that have appeared over the last year or so)

Contact details, to save you hunting, are:

by email warmemorial@telegraph.co.uk or by writing to Lest We Forget Campaign, The Sunday Telegraph, 111 Buckingham Palace Road, London, SW1W 0DT

You never know, the paper might take an interest and give some assistance or national coverage.

The very best of luck with your campaign

NigelS

[stephen peter roche]

I dont believe this who do these people think they are having lost countless Memorials in 50'60'and70 the ministry off Justice has decided to simply sell/demolish yet another one at worst they should find another home for them and not get round it by promising to build another , I don't see them doing it will you forever? lose the names from these wars memorials do they know what it's made off anyway its seems they just don't think all there concerned with is appearing to save money are we going to see the lose of yet more of these Memorials? over the coming years which got me thinking here in Newham are we losesing them without knowing about it spread that out across the country if you dare. p s so much for they shall not be forgotten in years to come.I will point out that most of the Memorials lost in the 1950-1970 may have been lost due to Buildings being sold or purchase orders the decsions for which where taken behind closed doors of the councells and planing deparments then into that mix you throw the contractors who it seem now days are a bit more understanding let just hope.lastly i belive that sometime back there was a simmuler problem with another Memorial how they resolved that was to put a conservation order on the memorials they then can not be touched?how about English heratiage.

[Ian Riley]

In the interests of balance, I did not see anything in the original post to say that the Ministry of Justice has decided to demolish the memorial or the building. It seemed to say that they were offering it for sale which does makes its future uncertain. The original poster does go on to talk about the building and the memorial being 'lost forever'.

I am not sure that the Ministry of Justice (and whatever went before ... the Home Office .. the Lord Chancellor's Department) are responsible, either directly or indirectly (see post #7), for the loss of 'countless' memorials between 1950-1970 although some local education authorities and boards of school governors of the time might be less than blameless. Has the Ministry of Justice actually 'refused' to talk about it or is it that they have made no response (as yet)?

What losses that did occur were in the context of a society (ie many of us) that was not prepared or bothered or sufficiently concerned to ask questions such as "Where is it?" or "What's happening to ...". Alan Gerrard and his colleagues clearly are prepared to do so today. There is rightly concern over the future of the memorial at Fenton. If the building is empty I would think (without knowing the security arrangements) that the major threat at the moment is vandalism with the dreadful thought of the possible smashing of those individually-made encaustic tiles.

I think that there needs to be care taken to avoid the possibility of unfounded rumours that would ultimately weaken the case.

Ian

[alangerrard]

Thank you for the comments everyone has made.

Some excellent ideas there, some of which had already acted upon, some not.

I think the big thing that stands out for me in all this is that the location of a memorial should not prejudice its treatment. Fenton IS a town which is largely forgotten even by its own local authority, we even have to fight with them to get them to put it on the Protected Asset List under the Community Right to Bid scheme.

But, without meaning to sound like a working class hero, should the people that live there, or their ancestors who gave their lives so selflessly, be treated any differently to people who live in "posh" areas?

We have contacted most of the national and international press and TV already but the Sunday Telegraph series of articles could be promising. Both Cameron and Grayling have been contacted by recorded delivery letter, the War Memorials Trust and Commonwealth War Graves were contacted some time ago. EHL and the Secretary of State for culture decided to reject listing of the building a few months ago.

Apologies if my original post came over as excessively emotive, but the potential scenarios described are very real indeed.

I enclose a photo of Albert Square; the iconic cenotaph which stands proudly in the centre of the picture (town hall on the left) is the image featured on the War Memorials Trust's home page.

Alan

[Ian Riley]

This is clearly an urban space in need of preservation. Thanks for the photo.

Ian

[alangerrard]

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Lander Thomas

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Moore Harry

Mellor W.

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Morris Percy

Martin F.

Moseley W.T.

Morgan G.

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Nash Harry

Nixon Edmund

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Slater Moses

Steele Henry

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Starkey Samuel

Sutton Daniel

Steele Frederick

Shingler Louis

Stanley H.

Smallwood S.

Stonier George

Stonier H.

Sutton Albert

Silvester W.G.

Shenton Peter

Shore Willaim

Seabridge W.S.

Sutton Percy

Smith Frederick

Stokes Charles

Shelley A.

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Scragg Isaac

Shelley W.

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Wood Ernest

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Winfield John

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Wilshaw E.

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Wright Ernest

Woodcock G.

Webb William H.

Whitmore G.

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[johnboy]

Good luck with your campaign to save this memorial. Maybe a local builder could tell you if it could removed and /or put together elsewhere. As it appears that the building is older than the memorial I doubt that it is 'built into the fabric of the building'. If it could be removed I am sure the British Legion, a museum, a church or even the town hall would be interested in having it.

[KevinBattle]

As I pointed out, less than 3 years ago CSM Harp's Name was added to the Memorial.

Who was behind that?

If they could get something ADDED, then they must know the right contacts to ensure its preservation.

The Powers that were contacted then need to be contacted again, otherwise all the effort to add a Name will be wasted, and that cannot have been the intention of all the Parties involved in 2010.

Alan: Do you know who was behind the addition of CSM Harp's name?

Are they aware of the latest developments?

What will/can they do to help you?

That was the purpose of my posting that info for you.

[Ian Riley]

Good luck with your campaign to save this memorial. Maybe a local builder could tell you if it could removed and /or put together elsewhere. As it appears that the building is older than the memorial I doubt that it is 'built into the fabric of the building'. If it could be removed I am sure the British Legion, a museum, a church or even the town hall would be interested in having it.

... if there is any consideration of moving, it needs a professional conservator ... possibly some one from the National Conservation Centre in Liverpool with, I would suggest, input from the Potteries Museum. A local builder/tiler or the council direct works department may do some of the donkey work under (very close and constant) supervision but if left to a builder alone (which might seem like a cheap option) you could be risking a disaster. If needs must, I would avoid any old local builder and look for one with very specialist skills and work with them, an architect and a conservator with the necessary expertise.

We have moved a complex multi-piece war memorial twice in the last twelve years (or rather 'we' ourselves didn't) and had to fight off the enthusiastic amateurs ready to drill rawlbolts through bronze from the studio of a well-known sculptor. The professional advice, guidance and actual physical input from the Conservation Centre was invaluable, indeed priceless. Just crating it for temporary storage and transport was a problem in itself that would have led to damage if we had not taken advice and stuck with it.

I would doubt that these bits are just stuck on the wall, as you might do with kitchen or bathroom tile. I would think that there is the possibility of quite a complex support structure embedded below.

I really can't see why the memorial is not listed; it looks to be of national importance to me as a work of decorative art, let alone the aspect of remembrance. Are the Potteries stuffed with such ceramic memorials?

Ian

[BereniceUK]

The person to speak to at Stoke-on-Trent City Council is Jon Goodwin, if anyone knows what danger the memorial is in it will be him.

[Phil Wood]

The memorial and building may not be listed - but that does not mean that they shouldn't be listed. You could contact English Heritage about getting them listed. You could also get them on a local list of heritage assets (many councils have these) which would make sure the fate of the memorial is a key aspect of any future planning permission.

[Ice Tiger]

You can apply to have the memorial listed in its own right. You do not have to have the building listed to do this.

May I suggest you try to get the memorial listed first and later apply for listed status for the building. This will prevent any arguements against listing the building impacting on the listing of the memorial.

Andy

[Moonraker]

Alan, another possible avenue of attack: the Sunday Telegraph has been running a campaign - 'Lest we Forget' - to identify and draw attention to war memorials under threat (Click for a thread which gives links on articles that have appeared over the last year or so)

Contact details, to save you hunting, are:

by email warmemorial@telegraph.co.uk or by writing to Lest We Forget Campaign, The Sunday Telegraph, 111 Buckingham Palace Road, London, SW1W 0DT

NigelS

Short item in today's Daily Telegraph about the "Lest we Forget" campaign helping the cleaning of the memorial and clock tower in Stockwell, Lambeth, London. It ends "How long before it is desecrated by vandalism, smeared with graffiti and surrounded by litter?"

Moonraker