Martin Bennitt Posted 24 May , 2013 Share Posted 24 May , 2013 The Red Fort in Delhi has a war museum originally started by the British after the Great War with weaponry supposedly mainly used against the Turks or captured from them. A strange collection it is, with very vague labelling. The rifles had me puzzled for instance, being attributed to such countries as Sweden, or just London (which appears to be a shotgun anyway). There are no SMLEs (perhaps in India they don't belong in museums yet) or indeed anything else I can recognise. Can some expert(s) please identify the attached and suggest their real provenance. Sorry about the quality of the pictures but the things were inside glass cases. Here's the first one cheers Martin B and the second cheers again Martin B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asanewt Posted 24 May , 2013 Share Posted 24 May , 2013 3 & 2 have Martini-Henry falling block underlever action to my novice eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 24 May , 2013 Share Posted 24 May , 2013 Most appear to be carbines rather than full rifles to me #7 appears to be a Mauser Carbine (the Swedish 1894 / Argentinian 1909 were stocked out to the muzzle like this) this may be the origin of the Swedish labeling #1 looks like it might be a French Gras (?)Carbine - I think Kynoch in Britain produced/remade some of these -- so again that would explain the British label - but I have never seen one stocked like this 2 & 3 do look to be Martini actions - if # 2 is Turkish then it is probably a Martini-Peabody, #3 looks to be a Martini Cavalry Carbine. # 5 looks like a Peabody Rifle Best guesses before I go and start looking things up. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 25 May , 2013 Share Posted 25 May , 2013 OK - bit more informed guesses now.... still just my best guess 4 I think this is actually an Pattern 1853 Enfield Cavalry Carbine with the wood cut down 7 I think is a Turkish Model 1905 Mauser Carbine (missing upper hand guard) 1 I think is a Turkish Model 1887 Mauser Carbine 3 I think is a Martini-Henry Cavalry Carbine 5 I think is a Peabody Rifle / Carbine (not too confident on this one) 6 Looks to be a single barreled shotgun of some sort 2 Martini -- and if actually Turkish then a Peabody Martini (possibly converted to 7.65mm see shortened barrel) Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike_H Posted 25 May , 2013 Share Posted 25 May , 2013 Number 5 is an Austrian Werndl 1867/77 Carbine M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 25 May , 2013 Share Posted 25 May , 2013 Number 5 is an Austrian Werndl 1867/77 Carbine M Quite right. I stand corrected. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 25 May , 2013 Share Posted 25 May , 2013 with a couple of comparative images. 4 I think this is actually some version of a Pattern 1856 Enfield Cavalry Carbine with the wood cut down SEE HERE (not sure on this -- but this general pattern) 7 I think is a Turkish Model 1905 Mauser Carbine (missing upper hand guard) SEE HERE 1 I think is a Turkish Model 1887 Mauser Carbine SEE HERE (this is the rifle but shows the action quite well) 3 I think is a Martini-Henry Cavalry Carbine SEE HERE 5 Austrian Werndl 1867/77 Carbine SEE HERE 6 Looks to be a single barreled shotgun of some sort? 2 Martini -- and if actually Turkish then a Peabody Martini (possibly converted to 7.65mm see shortened barrel) SEE HERE middle rifle Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Bennitt Posted 26 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 26 May , 2013 Thanks for that info gentlemen, which leaves me wondering given the age of some of these weapons if they were really captured in Mesopotamia, or perhaps from local tribesmen rather than the Turks. There are even bows and arrows in there clearly marked 1914-18. The information given is somewhat sparse: cheers Martin B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Bennitt Posted 26 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 26 May , 2013 These are the pistols and a couple more rifles, or possibly a musket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Bennitt Posted 26 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 26 May , 2013 another carbine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Bennitt Posted 26 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 26 May , 2013 and the machine-gun, an MG08, I believe, but with some bits missing cheers Martin B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 26 May , 2013 Share Posted 26 May , 2013 Not an MG08, but an Austrian Schwarzlose. However, these were also used by the Turks. Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 26 May , 2013 Share Posted 26 May , 2013 These are the pistols and a couple more rifles, or possibly a musket Top one is some sort of musket The lower is a GEW 1888 Commission Rifle by the look of it but the bayonet looks to be a plug bayonet fitted in the barrel which is very odd! SEE HERE The carbine below looks to be a cut down Gras rifle/carbine SEE HERE No idea on revolvers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 26 May , 2013 Share Posted 26 May , 2013 .....The lower is a GEW 1888 Commission Rifle by the look of it but the bayonet looks to be a plug bayonet fitted in the barrel which is very odd! SEE HERE........ Is it that Chris or is it an optical illusion caused by a side mounted bayonet still in its scabbard? Cheers TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 26 May , 2013 Share Posted 26 May , 2013 Is it that Chris or is it an optical illusion caused by a side mounted bayonet still in its scabbard? Cheers TonyE Which would make much more sense! but given that the bolt is open - it looks like there might not be room between the rifle and the wall for a bayonet unless the muzzle is further away from the wall than the receiver ....still I think you are right the frog button on the scabbard appears visible. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Bennitt Posted 26 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 26 May , 2013 Not an MG08, but an Austrian Schwarzlose. However, these were also used by the Turks. Regards TonyE Ah yes, knew I'd seen one before -- in the rather better equipped Vienna military museum cheers Martin B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assafx Posted 26 May , 2013 Share Posted 26 May , 2013 looking at the first two photographs, is it possible that the Turks used Peabody martini in WWI? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 26 May , 2013 Share Posted 26 May , 2013 Ah yes, knew I'd seen one before -- in the rather better equipped Vienna military museum cheers Martin B No, sorry, that's an Italian 6.5mm Revelli! looking at the first two photographs, is it possible that the Turks used Peabody martini in WWI? I cannot quote a source, but I am sure reserve units would have used the Peabody Martini, just as the Martini Enfield was used in the UK. Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Bennitt Posted 26 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 26 May , 2013 No, sorry, that's an Italian 6.5mm Revelli! Regards TonyE Well they look pretty similar to me. But what the heck, vive la différence. cheers Martin B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radlad Posted 26 May , 2013 Share Posted 26 May , 2013 Bottom right revolver in post no.9 appears to be a 2nd or 3rd model s&w no 3 .(the so called Russian model). Could be a copy as many were made by Spanish and Belgian gunmakers and this one appears to have a double action feature not present in the originals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Bennitt Posted 27 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 27 May , 2013 The lower is a GEW 1888 Commission Rifle by the look of it but the bayonet looks to be a plug bayonet fitted in the barrel which is very odd! Perhaps it's because it's not a bayonet but a boyonet cheers Martin B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfrik-the-wanderer Posted 9 June , 2013 Share Posted 9 June , 2013 revolver far left seems to be some sort Lefaucheux revolver? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 9 June , 2013 Share Posted 9 June , 2013 Yes, it certainly looks like one. Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radlad Posted 10 June , 2013 Share Posted 10 June , 2013 revolver far left seems to be some sort Lefaucheux revolver? Don't think so, my money would be on it being an M1870 Gasser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulfrik-the-wanderer Posted 10 June , 2013 Share Posted 10 June , 2013 Don't think so, my money would be on it being an M1870 Gasser the more I look the more I have to agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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