steverob Posted 19 May , 2013 Share Posted 19 May , 2013 Hi I have just started to trace the ancestors and am working on my maternal grandfather. He died on the Somme in 1916 and although I have his full name and a photograph I can't connect the two. I thought if I could identify the uniform he is wearing I could then use this info to confirm the name etc. and that's where I need help. A photo is attached but it is badly creased across the cap badge but anyone have any ideas? Thanks for any guidance. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERITAGE PLUS Posted 19 May , 2013 Share Posted 19 May , 2013 Steve If you post his name here it may help us help you. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steverob Posted 19 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 19 May , 2013 Hi Dave His name is Frederick George Stevens - I didn't post it because I didn't want to go down any false routes. I have traced him via Ancestry military records which shows his death in July 1916 with the Scottish Rifles and also found the same Frederick Stevens on the 1911 census in India and traced him to the King's Own Scottish Borderers but the uniform doesn't seem to fit the history of the units? We only know his name - my grandmother and he never married before he went back to the front and as was normal at the time, a child outside marriage wasn't really discussed - my mother was left with her grandmother to be raised and so we have no more details. the photo was from her personal effects. Thanks again for replying. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dundeesown Posted 19 May , 2013 Share Posted 19 May , 2013 The cap badge or the cap is not K.O.S.B or Scottish Rifles. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 19 May , 2013 Admin Share Posted 19 May , 2013 South Wales Borderers I think Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tn.drummond Posted 19 May , 2013 Share Posted 19 May , 2013 The crease is right where we don't want it to be - however, best guess South Wales Borderers. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steverob Posted 19 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 19 May , 2013 Gary, Tim and Michelle thanks for the quick replies - I didn't think it would be the Scottish regiment badge but sadly haven't traced anyone via the South Wales Borderers - will keep looking though. Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 19 May , 2013 Share Posted 19 May , 2013 As noted - can't do much about the badge but gave him a quick polish.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steverob Posted 19 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 19 May , 2013 Thanks for the photo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 20 May , 2013 Share Posted 20 May , 2013 I too think that he is SWB and probably a Territorial given that he is wearing a leather waist belt from the 1903 pattern mounted infantry bandolier equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steverob Posted 20 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 20 May , 2013 Thanks for the badge and belt info frogsmile - looks good to me plus I have found a Frederick Stevens in the SWB and Monmouthshire Reg - my family originated in Colwyn Bay and it seems they were posted there in 1915 so could be a good pointer from all on the forum! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 20 May , 2013 Share Posted 20 May , 2013 He is dressed for mounted duties, ie breeches, which accounts for the 1903 pattern belt. He's probably either on the battalion transport, an officer's orderly or a dispatch rider. Not likely IMO to be a territorial - the shoulder title is unclear but what can be seen resembles the simple "SWB" worn by regular and service battalions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 20 May , 2013 Share Posted 20 May , 2013 He is dressed for mounted duties, ie breeches, which accounts for the 1903 pattern belt... on the battalion transport... My thoughts exactly. Cheers, GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 20 May , 2013 Share Posted 20 May , 2013 I agree that he might be from a transport section, but if dressed for mounted duties he is missing the usual GS spurs and his puttees also appear to be tied in dismounted fashion (alhough my monitor is too small for 100% clarity). For those reasons I plumped for TF on the balance of probability. For Steve, you can make of all that what you will. He could be either and it is not possible to be definitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steverob Posted 22 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 22 May , 2013 All the info helps - I am really appreciative of everyone's input on the forum. I will concentrate on the SWB as I said earlier they have a connection to NWales in 1915 so I'll see what I can find down that route and I have a Frederick Stevens that seemed to be there at that time he was with 11th Btn SWB - I have traced his medal record via Ancestry which shows two service numbers - SWB and Monmouthshire 22132 and 228771 plus a service record showing the same info. I just need to see what happened to him - he got the victory medal so saw the war through - which doesn't fit with family "legend" that said he was killed in 1916. More work to do! Thanks again for all the help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Gibson Posted 22 May , 2013 Share Posted 22 May , 2013 The number 228771 would place him in the 1st Battalion Monmouthshire Regiment. I can find nothing that indicates that this soldier was killed during the war. Unfortunately I have nothing else on him other than that you already have. Regards Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steverob Posted 22 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 22 May , 2013 Thanks Martyn - on his medal card the number SWB and 22132 appear first then 228771 and Monmouthshire next so I guess he was transferred and ended up in the Monmouthshire, like you that's all I can find, so I'll carry on through Ancestry and see if I can pick him up post war. Thanks for your help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martyn Gibson Posted 23 May , 2013 Share Posted 23 May , 2013 Steve, I have followed up on this soldier and there is a wealth of information on him in Ancestry. His service records survived and it shows his full military history and it is quite interesting to read. He originally joined the SWB but was briefly transferred to the 2/1 Herefords before posting to the Monmouthshires. He wasn't always a good soldier and suffered somewhat with his health as he is listed as being hospitalised on two ocassions, once with Scabies and the other time with Impetigo. He arrived in France Dec 1915 and was awarded the 1914/15 Star, BWM and Victory medal.. If you search in Ancestry Service records you will find all this and more. When you get the first page up use the Back/Forward arrows at the top of the page to navigate through them all. If you need any further assistance please ask. Happy Reading Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apwright Posted 23 May , 2013 Share Posted 23 May , 2013 If you search in Ancestry Service records you will find all this and more. A lot more! And then trace his probable family in the censuses, and then find his christening record on FindMyPast. If this is your grandfather, Steve, then one can perhaps understand why a tale of "killed on the Somme" might be convenient! Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 23 May , 2013 Share Posted 23 May , 2013 So he was a Territorial then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steverob Posted 23 May , 2013 Author Share Posted 23 May , 2013 Thanks again Frogsmile for the pointers which have all come good, and Adrian and Martyn -had a good read on Ancestry and think this could be my man! Will work on it some more next week. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 23 May , 2013 Share Posted 23 May , 2013 So he was a Territorial then. Not when he was in the SWBs, when the picture was taken. According to post 15 he was in the 11th (Service) Battalion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 24 May , 2013 Share Posted 24 May , 2013 Not when he was in the SWBs, when the picture was taken. According to post 15 he was in the 11th (Service) Battalion. That's intriguing. I had always thought it was unusual for men to move between Service Battalions and TF before conscription began in 1916 and led to free movement between battalions. I suppose it might be because he was for a time medically downgraded and perhaps sent to a second line unit. It will be interesting to learn more about his movements and why they came about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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