Rank on Victory Medal

[JOSTURM]

I'm assuming this has been asked and answered amny time before, so please forgive me. Would the rank inscribed on an Officers VM be the rank he held at the Armistice ? I have a 2Lt who was commissioned 31.7.17 into the Infantry and was appointed as a Temporary 2Lt in June 1918 in the RAF and according to the Army Lists was not gazetted as a Lieutenant until 1st February 1919 on discharge to the unemployed list as of 12 February.

I think the VM's were awarded in 1920, but on this basis would the inscribed rank have been '2LT' as that was his rank at the end of the war ?

I need to know this sure, to be certain I have the correct man and medal.

Thanks

Josturm.

[daggers]

My understanding is that officers had their medals named privately, so would dictate what they wanted. They received them in blank state.

Other ranks had theirs done officially, before issue.

D

[Ian Riley]

My understanding is that officers had their medals named privately, so would dictate what they wanted. They received them in blank state.

Other ranks had theirs done officially, before issue.

D

Don't think so, Daggers, as regards the officers. I thought they came with rank and name but no number (didn't seem to have one) or regiment. I'm sure all the ones I have seen have no regiment so that sort of standardisation would seem to imply central naming. Happy to be corrected.

Ian

[depaor01]

Ian is correct. I have a 2nd Lieutenant's Victory with no number. I had to check and I hadn't noticed that it is indeed missing any reference to a regiment!

The impression is the standard type for non officer ranks so not privately impressed.

[Old Owl]

My understanding is that officers had their medals named privately, so would dictate what they wanted. They received them in blank state.

Other ranks had theirs done officially, before issue.

D

This was true for the Military Cross because this was issued un-named, thus many M.C.'s are found engraved with the recipient's details. However in the case of his campaign medals ie. 1914 or 1914/15 Stars, British War Medal and Victory Medal, all these were officially impressed and issued as such. An officer or his NOK had to apply for their medals, whereas all medals to those below commissioned rank were issued automatically.

Robert

[Jim_Grundy]

Campaign medals were officially impressed for officers and other ranks. The rank on a British War Medal or Victory Medal was that held by the individual at the end of hostilities. I have seen medals to officers who were promoted from Second Lieutenant to Lieutenant after the Armistice, in early 1919, with the '2' of '2/Lt.' filed off. Doubtless they wanted the medals to reflect their current rank but the Army being the Army......

[Ian Riley]

This was true for the Military Cross because this was issued un-named, thus many M.C.'s are found engraved with the recipient's details. However in the case of his campaign medals ie. 1914 or 1914/15 Stars, British War Medal and Victory Medal, all these were officially impressed and issued as such. An officer or his NOK had to apply for their medals, whereas all medals to those below commissioned rank were issued automatically.

Robert

Quite a lot of the King's Liverpool MCs that I have seen are engraved in the same style of lettering with the addition of a place and (if I recall correctly) a date. Possibly some enterprising jeweller/engraver stood outside the Palace Gates handing out his brochures or a Liverpool jeweller perhaps was advertising his services.

Ian

[daggers]

My (mis)understanding. L plates now refitted.

D

[Old Owl]

Quite a lot of the King's Liverpool MCs that I have seen are engraved in the same style of lettering with the addition of a place and (if I recall correctly) a date. Possibly some enterprising jeweller/engraver stood outside the Palace Gates handing out his brochures or a Liverpool jeweller perhaps was advertising his services.

Ian

You could well be right--there's usually some enterprising person trying to 'coin in' on such things. Of course the vast majority of M.C.'s were never named which is a shame because an un-named M.C. immediately becomes unresearchable as a single medal, the upside being that because many are un-named they can easily be re-attached to an entitled medal group.

I remember circa 25 years ago visiting a large market where a jewellery dealer used to buy in medals. On this occasion he showed me a 1914/15 Star Trio with Memorial Plaque to a Lieut/Captain in the Gloucestershire Regiment, also there was an officer's bronze cap badge, his I/D bracelet and a Gloucester Regt sweetheart broach. He quoted me a very acceptable price for the lot and I purchased the whole grouping, then, as I was leaving he said: " Oh, they also brought in this--" and passed me an M.C. in it's case of issue, this was un-named and the dealer had not related it to the other medals--I purchased this too and when I returned home found that the M.C. was indeed part of the group and that the officer had also been killed in action. Unfortunately this type of purchase was rare even 25 years ago--just a matter of being in the right place at the right time. I still have the group in my collection.

Robert

[Ian Riley]

Quite a lot of the King's Liverpool MCs that I have seen are engraved in the same style of lettering with the addition of a place and (if I recall correctly) a date. Possibly some enterprising jeweller/engraver stood outside the Palace Gates handing out his brochures or a Liverpool jeweller perhaps was advertising his services.

Ian

Image Copyright of the Liverpool Scottish Regimental Museum Trustees 2013. The brother of Captain TE Rome was an officer in 10 KLR (The Liverpool Scottish)

[rflory]

Victory Medals to officers were not 'issued blank' and do not show the rank 'held by the individual at the end of hostilities.' Officers' BWMs and VMs, as those for other ranks, show the highest rank held in a theater of war or overseas prior to 11 November 1918. The notice below was included with issued BWMs and VMs.