Cap badge identification please

[Susan Tall]

Would appreciate some help with these cap badge identities please. They also have rather fancy chevrons on their sleeves.

The back of the card says "Andruicy - France Dec 1915". Anyone know anything about this place.

Thanks in advance. Sue.

[Old Owl]

Hi Susan,

Could be Rifle Brigade, but there are one or two very similar badges.

Robert

PS The chevrons are Lance Corporal's stripes.

[Susan Tall]

That was quick Robert. I'm just trying to help a friend identify photos found in her granny's collection.

Will see if anyone else has anything to say. Thanks.

[Old Owl]

The other possibilities are: 8th Londons, 17th Londons, 19th Londons, 7th Notts and Derby also 7th and 8th West Yorks. Any of the first three are quite likely but the last three were worn as blackened badges--so probably unlikely.

Hope this helps.

Robert

[Stebie9173]

Blackened buttons point to a rifle Regiment or Rifle associated battalion (as opposed to standard "Line Infantry").

The chevrons are a variant of the standard material chevron - these are in worsted.

Both are wearing "ESD" - Economy Service Dress - are cut down version of the standard tunic (no pocket pleats or extra layers in the shoulder). These uniforms were most commonly issued from 1915 to 1916. There are no other insignia visible. Both men have muddy boots so this is unlikely to be a photo taken straight after enlistment.

Steve.

[spof]

Can anyone place "Andruicy"? We might be able to work out which battalions were there in Dec 1915.

[Susan Tall]

Looking at the postcard again I think it might be Audruice or Audruicy. I've googled and there are one or two vague references to a place in the Pas de Calais.

Thanks Stebie for pointing out the blackened buttons. I already noted the muddy boots, but hadn't realised about the economy service dress.

[Kitchener's Bugle]

Here is the Rifle Brigade Badge.

[asanewt]

Odds on Rifle Brigade?

[spof]

There is a place called AUDRUICQ about halfway between Calais and St Omer so they could be newly arrived drafts to reinforce the existing battalions although they seem to me to have a look about them saying "been there, done that" particularly the man sitting down.

The RB locations for Dec 1915 are:

1 RB - Somme

2 RB - Les Ciseaux (E of St Omer)

3 RB - Not known possibly Eperlecques area??

4 RB - Salonika

5 RB - Home reserve

6 RB - Home reserve

7 RB - Salient

8 RB - Salient/ Poperinghe

9 RB - Not known

10-12 RB - 60th Div Laventie and Fleurbaix

13 RB - Somme

14 RB - Home reserve

15 RB - Home reserve

16 RB - Home

I don't have war diairies for 3rd or 9th battalions but a battalion in the same brigade as the 3rd (8th Buffs) were in the Eperlecques area which is not a million miles away. 8th bn was in the same Division as the 9th so they aren't likely to be in the area either.

Do you have any possible names and I can check the medal rolls?

Glen

[Susan Tall]

Thanks everyone for your input. I think we can safely say it is the Rifle Brigade.

Unfortunately I don't know their names, or even if they are relatives of my friend. The names Weatherilt and Waldron are those of the famiky that had the photo album with this photo in and they lived in Harrow. I've checked the medal cards for Weatherilt but couldn't seem to come up with anything connected to the Rifle Brigade.

[paul@bolton]

Susan

Another possibility. Weatherilt is an unusual name and, if you look it up on the CWGC website, you will see that there are only two soldiers of that name who died. One is Harvey Weatherilt of the 1st/7th London Regiment. I am not sure what their cap badge looked like.

However, you will see that he came from Harrow and was the son of Marion Copland Weatherilt of 33, Cunningham Park, Harrow. If you have access to Ancestry and can view the 1911 census for this address, you will see that Harvey had an elder brother, Stephen Frederick Weatherilt who worked for the GPO, as did Marion and one of the lodgers.

So how about 1/8th Battalion London Regiment (the Post Office Rifles) as the cap badge. Black buttons as per post 4. The man seated could be Stephen (probably 32 when the photograph was taken).

It would be nice to think that Harvey is the man standing but I don't see a family resemblance. Anyone know what the 1/7th cap badge looked like?

Paul

[Susan Tall]

Hi Paul,

You located the right Weatherilt family but I don't think it is the two brothers Stephen and Harvey. If you search on Harvey Weatherilt on here you'll see I posted a query last year as again I had unidentified photos - of the same person with two different cap badges and I believe this to be Harvey. He was in the 2/6th East Surrey Regiment before the London Regiment. He doesn't look like any of the two men in this photo.

I did wonder if they could be the Clarke brothers who were lodgers with the Weatherilts in 1911. Did a search on the Medal Cards but couldn't come up with anything - not surprising with such a common name.

I also searched for Stephen Frederick Weatherilt but couldn't find any Medal Card for him at all.

Do you think that in this photo, the fact that one is leaning on the other might signify that they are related, or is this the way many photos were taken then?

I suppose they could have been Post Office colleaques of Stephen's. Will probably never know.

Thanks for your help.

Sue

[spof]

Nice work Paul and Old Owl for thinking of the 8th Londons.The cap badge is the same as the RB only with fewer honours on scroll around the leaves.I can'ttell if it is a PO Rifles badge from the photograph although maybe someone can.

[FROGSMILE]

The badge of the 1/7th London Regiment is enclosed and looks very different to the RB and 8th Londons. I think that the original photo does indeed look a lot like the 8th Londons as the scroll at bottom centre of the badge seems more apparent.