auchonvillerssomme Posted 11 April , 2013 Share Posted 11 April , 2013 I'm a little confused, recently I have come across 2 references to 'Eddystone' bayonets, on both occasions these were M1917's made by Remington. I am aware of the rifle manufacturer but have never heard or seen these bayonets called Eddystone bayonets before. So has the term passed me by? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 11 April , 2013 Share Posted 11 April , 2013 I'm a little confused, recently I have come across 2 references to 'Eddystone' bayonets, on both occasions these were M1917's made by Remington. I am aware of the rifle manufacturer but have never heard or seen these bayonets called Eddystone bayonets before. So has the term passed me by? auchonvillerssomme, There are no ' Eddystone ' marked bayonets, as although there was an original British Government contract given to Eddystone for some 2 million rifles and bayonets, because of production difficulties at the Eddystone plant, no bayonets were produced. Production figures for the Remington and Winchester bayonets are as follows :- Pattern 1913 Winchester 1916-17, 225,000 Remington 1916-17, 1,243,000 Model 1917 Winchester 1917-18, 500,000 Remington 1917 -18, 2,000,000 Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 11 April , 2013 Share Posted 11 April , 2013 Yes there were the 3 separate manufacturers of the M1917 rifles - Remington, Winchester and Eddystone but only the first 2 made the bayonets for them. So Eddystone Arsenal did not make any of the bayonets. This is just another case of 'collectors terminology' being very broadly and also incorrectly used. I guess it's like calling the P1907 the "SMLE bayonet" - yes it is the bayonet that goes on the SMLE rifle, however the "Eddystone rifle" does fix the M1917. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 11 April , 2013 Share Posted 11 April , 2013 Funny you should mention this Mick as I have noticed it recently too. All the terminology around the Pattern 1913 rifle, Pattern 1913 bayonet, Pattern 1914 rifle, US rifle .30 cal M1917 and M1917 bayonet gets mixed up all the time (and eBay listings add their own imaginative variations) Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 11 April , 2013 Share Posted 11 April , 2013 And then you get the "American Enfield" descriptions of the rifles ... so was the Pattern 14 rifle ever technically listed as an Enfield by the British.? Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 11 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 11 April , 2013 This was the latest, I missed this auction which looking at some of the items, I wish I hadn't. http://www.tennants.co.uk/Catalogue/Lots/186674.aspx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 11 April , 2013 Share Posted 11 April , 2013 They all look to be Remingtons so at least the description has got some semblance of truth - Remington was the parent company of the Eddystone subsidiary. Probably all "Lend Lease" offerings that date back to the Home Guard use during WW2. Some of those scabbards have seen better days. What'd they make.? Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 11 April , 2013 Share Posted 11 April , 2013 SS - it says 90 pounds. For the lot that is a VERY good price IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 11 April , 2013 Share Posted 11 April , 2013 Oh sorry - too busy looking at the goods.! After going to my trusty converter, yes very good at under $25 each ... with a clean worth at least $75+ Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 11 April , 2013 Share Posted 11 April , 2013 auchonvillerssomme, You may have seen references to ' Remington ' in connection with the Eddystone factory, Pennsylvania, U.S.A. In November of 1914, the Remington Arms and Ammunition Company of Ilion, New York, started receiving massive orders from the British Government for .303 rifles and their bayonets, further substantial orders followed in 1915, so along with a program of substantially expanding their Ilion, New York plant, the Chairman of Remington decided to organize a second new Remington Company to be formed to assist with the arms production contracts from the British Govenment. This Company, was to be known as the Remington Arms Company of Delaware, and in 1915 Remington leased a large plant at Eddystone, Pennsylvania which was formerly The Baldwin Locomotive Works. Colonel John T. Thompson ( who later became world famous for developing the Thompson sub-machine gun ) resigned from the U.S. Army to become Chief Engineer and oversee the construction and operation of the new Remington plant at Eddystone. Colonel Thompson stayed at Eddystone until America entered WW1., at which time he re-entered military service, eventually becoming a Brigadier-General and the Chief of the Small Arms Division and Director in Charge of Arsenals. This new Remington ' Eddystone ' plant produced the ' Eddystone ' marked .303 rifles for the British Government, and subsequently produced the Model 1917 .30 Rifles for the American Government. The vast complex at Eddystone became one of the largest arms factories in the world, employing over 15,000 people. Rifle production continued at Eddystone until March 1919. It is not known if any ' Remington ' bayonets were ever produced at Eddystone, and certainly no ' Eddystone ' bayonets were produced there. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 11 April , 2013 Share Posted 11 April , 2013 Remington ' Eddystone ' rifle promotion truck. LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 11 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 11 April , 2013 The lot reached 90 quid which was very good (for the buyer, premium is 17.5% plus VAT on top), Tennants are probably one of the best auctioneers in the North. There were some choice items on this list and prices were reasonable. The other mention of Eddystone was on a single Remington bayonet in an antique showroom, way overpriced that one at £110! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 11 April , 2013 Share Posted 11 April , 2013 Col. J. Taliaferro Thompson ( 1860 - 1940 ) ' Eddystone's ' Chief Engineer and later inventor of the Thompson sub-machine gun. LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 12 April , 2013 Share Posted 12 April , 2013 And then you get the "American Enfield" descriptions of the rifles ... so was the Pattern 14 rifle ever technically listed as an Enfield by the British.? Cheers, S>S No. Introduced as: Rifles, Magazine,.303-inch, Pattern 1914 Mark Ie, Mark Ir and Mark Iw. Later changed in 1926 to Rifle No.3 Mark I etc, plus the Mark I*(F) with fine adjustment backsight and the Mark I*(T) with telescopic sight. Cheers TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 12 April , 2013 Share Posted 12 April , 2013 Hi TonyE, I knew you'd be along to set me straight.! Yes well that's what I had thought too until just recently, when I saw glimpses from the new "Allied Rifle Contracts in America" book. Aren't you involved with the distribution of that book in the UK.? There is a promotion page for it which I stumbled across linked HERE It also shows some sample pages which I happened to browse through. It shows the P14 as an Enfield and its even on the handbook.? Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 12 April , 2013 Share Posted 12 April , 2013 Yes, I distribute it in the UK and I know the authors well. In fact I had quite a lot of input into the Pattern '14 chapter but I had never noticed the heading on the manual! How very interesting. I wonder if that was going to be the original nomenclature but was changed for the Lists of Changes entry? Well spotted. Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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