shanelamberth Posted 6 April , 2013 Share Posted 6 April , 2013 Hi Friends, I'm currently beginning work on a personal project. A graphic novelette about the Battle of Henry Johnson. Once I'm finished with this 15 page or so eBook, I plan to give it away for free on my website. The art is inspired by French painter Maurice Toussaint, who painted many WWI propanda posters during that time. This forum has been a huge help with research on the details of that time period. I was curious if any of you would mind giving me suggestions or inputs along the way? I've attached a design sample of Henry Johnson in uniform from research on this forum. Do you find anything incorrect? Anything not right about the insignia's, color, or gear? It would be such a huge help to have this community of experts and enthusiasts give their views on the art direction of this book. And I will be most happy to give credit in the book. I've also attached a sample of Mr. Johnson's M1917 Bolo Knife. From some of the discussions by JPS it seems this was most likely the correct issued weapon. (I originally had the M1909 Bolo knife designed for Henry Johnson). I look forward to hearing from you. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 6 April , 2013 Share Posted 6 April , 2013 You may want to run that by the staff of the Harlem Hellfighter museum in Harlem...they could probably be very helpful. http://www.369historicalsociety.org/ Was he left-handed? The placement of the bolo knife suggests he was in your figure, but I am not sure that he was. Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanelamberth Posted 6 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 6 April , 2013 Great suggestion! I wasn't even aware there was 369th historical society! Thanks Daniel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 6 April , 2013 Share Posted 6 April , 2013 Until a week ago, I worked just a few blocks from them. Nice folks and right across the street from the armory is the park and memorial to the 369th. -Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 7 April , 2013 Share Posted 7 April , 2013 The photos in Bill Harris' "The Helfighters of Harlem"(Carrol and Graf, 2002) shows the men of the 369th with French leather equipment and musette bag, armed with French rifles (appear to be berthiers but the picture is quite small) along with the French Casque Adrian (helmet) As they served with the French 4th Army they would almost certainly have been armed with French rifles for logistical reasons. I remember reading the book a long time ago and think I recall that it indicated they were supplied with US equipment for the return home. Chris Edit Here are two images found online (the second is the same as that in Harris' book) and shows French leather equipment and Berthier rifles Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 7 April , 2013 Share Posted 7 April , 2013 Hi Friends, Anything not right about the insignia's, color, or gear? Quite a lot really!.... They were issued with French leather equipment for starters, not what you depict (which is actually incorrect for the US webbing too... suspenders (on the US web equipment) resembled a cross strap, not the Y strap and the webbing back pouch is incorrect). Also, the cuff chevrons you show.... the two gold ones on the left sleeve would indicate 12 months service in France and could, therefore , not have been worn by any of this particular unit's members during hostilities. Those on his right would indicate that he had been wounded twice. Finally (other than the uniform colour being far too light for the Western Front ... it resembles the 'summer weight' uniform that was only (usually) worn in the USA), the cloth unit insignia was a very rare occurance during the war years, most only being attached after hostilities had ceased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanelamberth Posted 7 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 7 April , 2013 Thanks Chis. So they were issued Berthiers and not Lebel rifles? Do you think some Hellfighters would have worn the leather equipment while others were issed the web/canvas ammo belts? As far as I know, this will be the first well-rounded visual interpretation of the Battle of Henry Johnson so I'm going to try my hardest to get the details historically correct and make this Forum proud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 7 April , 2013 Share Posted 7 April , 2013 I remember reading the book a long time ago and think I recall that it indicated they were supplied with US equipment for the return home. They were initially issued with US equipment, but this was exchanged for French in France. As you say, it was re-issued for the return home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanelamberth Posted 7 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 7 April , 2013 Wow, wonderful! Thanks for the corrections Croonaert! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 7 April , 2013 Share Posted 7 April , 2013 This isn't too bad a depiction......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 7 April , 2013 Share Posted 7 April , 2013 Thanks Chis. So they were issued Berthiers and not Lebel rifles? Do you think some Hellfighters would have worn the leather equipment while others were issed the web/canvas ammo belts? As far as I know, this will be the first well-rounded visual interpretation of the Battle of Henry Johnson so I'm going to try my hardest to get the details historically correct and make this Forum proud. The photos I posted show Berthiers (they appear to be in the 3 round rather than 5 round format), the top photo shows the long cruciform bayonet and what appears to be a rifle grenade launcher also. While there may have been variations I suspect they all used French leather equipment - the photos appear to show that. One discrepancy would be the upper picture appears to show the man coming down the trench wearing a british/American SBR (gas mask) on his chest. Chris Edit: The rifle shown in the illustration just posted is the 3 round Berthier (without the sheetmetal magazine extension) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanelamberth Posted 7 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 7 April , 2013 What color would you say that is? It's a very warm tone, a golden brown? I thought the only two colors for the US uniforms were either khaki or olive green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 7 April , 2013 Share Posted 7 April , 2013 Johnson would've had three French M1916 cartridge pouches in brown leather, on French leather equipment belt and Y-strap; likely both an M2 and ARS gas mask; two French M1892 haversacks, one for hand grenades; French M1915 bayonet; French M1877 water bottle in horizon blue; blue Adrian helmet; and an M1916 M1907/15 Berthier rifle. He would've worn either puttees or M1917 canvas leggings, since both were issued to the black regiments, often to men in the same unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 7 April , 2013 Share Posted 7 April , 2013 There is a lot of variablity on US WWI uniforms in my limited experience.I own a dozen or so and they vary from very greenish drab to almost mustard coloured. I can try and take some sample photos for you if that would help. For what it is worth I think there is an overall yellowed tone to the picture posted above and I would go a bit greener -- however that is also going to depend on how the colours are rendered on your monitor too! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 7 April , 2013 Share Posted 7 April , 2013 and an M1916 Berthier rifle. Tom - the above (inspection) photo appears to show Mlle. 1907-15 Berthiers Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 7 April , 2013 Share Posted 7 April , 2013 Do you think some Hellfighters would have worn the leather equipment while others were issued the web/canvas ammo belts? Well, the men were taken by train from their American camps to their French camps wearing only their uniforms. They arrived at the French camps unarmed and without equipment. Still, Johnson retained his American bolo knife, which technically he shouldn't have had. There's also an official painting ofthe 369th wearing U.S. steel helmets instead of the Adrian. It's still controversial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 7 April , 2013 Share Posted 7 April , 2013 Tom - the above (inspection) photo appears to show Mlle. 1907-15 Berthiers Chris Oops! You're right. I knew it, too, but typed M1916 anyway. Stupid fingers have a mind of their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanelamberth Posted 7 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 7 April , 2013 Tom, you mentioned he would be wearing the "Horizon" blue Adrian Helmet not the brown adrian helmet? As hard as it is, it seems from Coonaert's reply that I will need to let go of the "rattler" cloth insignia I need to do some research and find out what correct insignia's he would have worn on his sleeves. So he shouldn't be wearing any badges or insignia's on the shoulders correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 7 April , 2013 Share Posted 7 April , 2013 Yes, probably no unit insignia on sleeves until post war. Collar disks and badges of rank are about it. US AEF uniforms were remarkably plain. They became much more adorned immediately post war with unit patches, wound stripes, oversees stripes and later the red honorable discharge chevron.Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 7 April , 2013 Share Posted 7 April , 2013 Tom, you mentioned he would be wearing the "Horizon" blue Adrian Helmet not the brown adrian helmet? As hard as it is, it seems from Coonaert's reply that I will need to let go of the "rattler" cloth insignia I need to do some research and find out what correct insignia's he would have worn on his sleeves. So he shouldn't be wearing any badges or insignia's on the shoulders correct? American troops wore the standard blue-gray French Adrian line-infantry helmet with flaming-grenade badge on the front. The mustard-brown helmet was issued to colonial troops. And yes, shoulder patches didn't appear until after the war, except for the 81st Division, which wore a wildcat patch against regulations. No shoulder-strap insignia whatsoever, and Johnson had been in France for only three months when he fought the German patrol, so he wouldn't have been wearing any sleeve insignia, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 7 April , 2013 Share Posted 7 April , 2013 As far as I know, this will be the first well-rounded visual interpretation of the Battle of Henry Johnson so I'm going to try my hardest to get the details historically correct and make this Forum proud. The first two-dimensional visual interpretation! http://www.onesixthw...llfighters.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 7 April , 2013 Share Posted 7 April , 2013 Not that it makes much difference but weren't the Berthiers they were issued with US manufactured? khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanelamberth Posted 7 April , 2013 Author Share Posted 7 April , 2013 Here is the revised color and equipment based on everyone's feedback which I truly appreciate. Any other comments or suggestions? After Henry Johnson is finished, on to Needham Roberts, then Lt. Pratt, then german soldiers, then other Harlem Hellfighers, and on and on.. whew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 7 April , 2013 Share Posted 7 April , 2013 Here is the revised color and equipment based on everyone's feedback which I truly appreciate. Any other comments or suggestions? After Henry Johnson is finished, on to Needham Roberts, then Lt. Pratt, then german soldiers, then other Harlem Hellfighers, and on and on.. whew. Looks good, except Johnson was heavily equipped with grenades. He would've had to carry them in a haversack. A little less orange in the uniform tone, and you've got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 7 April , 2013 Share Posted 7 April , 2013 Not that it makes much difference but weren't the Berthiers they were issued with US manufactured? khaki No way of knowing IMO -- but playing the odds/numbers -- no, probably not. A significant portion of the Remington produced Berthiers were not delivered which is why they turn up with such frequency in the US. Shanelamberth -- much better in my view -- nicely done. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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