Help with these items please.

[Bennov23]

Hi there

I guess this post could go in a few different place but i have put it here hope that is ok.

My grandfather has dug out some of his dad's old war stuff and want what these items are for, in particular the two cross rifles as his father has speically taken the time to pick it off his uniform, my thoughts are that it could be something to do with being a bit of a marksman??.

I didn't know untill yesterday that buttons could represent things so I'm exicted about that as well. there are a number of things that he dug out that can be seen here http://1914-1918.inv...57#entry1881680, but I wanted to know about these items in more detail.

Any help would be welcomed

Thanks Ben

[FROGSMILE]

Hi there

I guess this post could go in a few different place but i have put it here hope that is ok.

My grandfather has dug out some of his dad's old war stuff and want what these items are for, in particular the two cross rifles as his father has speically taken the time to pick it off his uniform, my thoughts are that it could be something to do with being a bit of a marksman??.

I didn't know untill yesterday that buttons could represent things so I'm exicted about that as well. there are a number of things that he dug out that can be seen here http://1914-1918.inv...57#entry1881680, but I wanted to know about these items in more detail.

Any help would be welcomed

Thanks Ben

Hello Ben,

Yes the crossed rifles relate to qualification as a marksman. At the time of WW1 this was earned at the annual classification shoot, when a man had to hit targets at varying ranges and in varying conditions in order to qualify. The award carried extra pay and as such annual re-qualification was necessary. This was a difficult thing to administer and was eventually discredited by a few soldiers cheating and piercing targets for their fellows with sharp pencils or spikes, in the butts, where the scoring was carried out. In defence of the soldiers they were hardly helped by the parsimonious amounts of ammunition allocated to each soldier annually for practice firing. Nevertheless, the policy did promote improved shooting and by 1914 the average number of marksmen in each infantry battalion, cavalry regiment, and artillery brigade, was far greater that in 1900.

The button is the general service button that was adopted for other ranks in 1871 (with a few exceptions such as the foot and horse guards), in order to save money, as previously regimental buttons had been used. It has the then sovereign's coat of arms embossed.

The shoulder titles relate to the Queen's Royal (West Surrey) Regiment, that prior to 1881, was the 2nd Regiment of Foot and the senior English line infantry regiment.

[Steven Broomfield]

Isn't it nice to see (given recent Press coverage of Mid-Devon Council's desire to abolish them on road signs) the apostrophe on the shoulder title.

[Bennov23]

Hi Frogsmile

Thanks for that info really helpful, he told my dad a few stories but as far as I know never said he was a marksman. I thought it must have been something he was pround of or he would never have kept it.

could you get different levels of marksman??

Thanks again

Ben

[FROGSMILE]

Hi Frogsmile

could you get different levels of marksman??

Thanks again

Ben

Yes, there was also:

1. Best shot in company, squadron, troop, battery.

2. Best rank & file shot in battalion, regiment, artillery brigade.

3. Best sergeant shot in battalion, regiment, artillery brigade.

4. Sergeants of best shooting company etc etc (this was to encourage sergeants to take an active interest in the shooting of their men).

However, these extra badges had been devised for a largely peacetime Army (excepting Colonial skirmishing) and it is doubtful whether the administrative effort necessary was possible in the theatres of the Great war.

[Bennov23]

Hi

Thanks for that and the rest of the infomation. I checked with my grandfather and he comfirmed that his dad never mentioned being a marksman at all! so you have been able to tell us something new about him.

Thanks again

Ben