GraemeClarke Posted 3 March , 2013 Share Posted 3 March , 2013 Morning, Two brothers from Walsall were, according to newspapers and all the local rolls of honour, awarded the Military Medal and Bar. They were Corporal 100233 Arthur Yates, Royal Field Artillery and Lance Corporal 16566 Ernest Yates 7th Battalion, South Staffordshire Regiment (KiA 20 Dec. 1917) Whilst I can trace the awards for the Military Medal, (London Gazette supplement 26 March 1917 p2993 and London Gazette supplement 16 August 1917 p8426 respectively) I can find no trace whatsoever of the Bar being gazetted. can anyone shed any light on this, please, and confirm whether the Bars were actually issued. Many thanks, Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnetchief Posted 4 March , 2013 Share Posted 4 March , 2013 Have you tried looking up their MM cards at the National Archives? They are available for download. I have a RE MM (bar) group that's where I obtained mine from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeClarke Posted 4 March , 2013 Author Share Posted 4 March , 2013 Morning Magman Many thanks for your reply. I have their MICs which just say M.M. I was hoping someone with a greater knowledge of the intricacies of the London Gazette may be able to find a listing, Cheers, Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnetchief Posted 5 March , 2013 Share Posted 5 March , 2013 Graeme I understand, have problems finding items in the Gazette myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoppage Drill Posted 5 March , 2013 Share Posted 5 March , 2013 With respect, if the only evidence you have of bars is the newspaper captions, then it is that I would doubt. I have seen misreporting of medals held (including a VC!) in papers of the time in local newspapers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeClarke Posted 5 March , 2013 Author Share Posted 5 March , 2013 Morning SD I totally agree, which is why I'm trying to conform or deny. There is 1 man on the Walsall RoH as a Lieutenant when he was, in fact, a Private. What he told his family I dread to think, Regards, Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 7 March , 2013 Share Posted 7 March , 2013 Graeme I checked the London Gazette indexes for 1917-1921 and, although able to confirm the award of each MM, they showed no award of the Bar to either of the two men. I would therefore assume the newspaper reference is in error. Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeClarke Posted 7 March , 2013 Author Share Posted 7 March , 2013 Hi Steve, Many thanks for your reply. I, too, am coming to that conclusion. Cheers and thanks for the time and effort, Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rflory Posted 7 March , 2013 Share Posted 7 March , 2013 I cannot find the Bar to MM for the RFA Yates on the database of RA decorations that I put together a few years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoppage Drill Posted 7 March , 2013 Share Posted 7 March , 2013 rflory, is your datbase confined to the Great War ? Reason I ask is an interest in a DCM to a 7 Bty RFA man called Harding at Kimberley in Feb 1900. There is a Great War connection as Harry Harding died in 1915 as a re-enlistment in the Veterinary Corps, and his CWGC reord and headstone do not mention his DCM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeClarke Posted 8 March , 2013 Author Share Posted 8 March , 2013 Morning Dick, Cheers, many thanks for that, Regards, Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rflory Posted 8 March , 2013 Share Posted 8 March , 2013 Stoppage Drill wrote: rflory, is your datbase confined to the Great War ? Reason I ask is an interest in a DCM to a 7 Bty RFA man called Harding at Kimberley in Feb 1900. There is a Great War connection as Harry Harding died in 1915 as a re-enlistment in the Veterinary Corps, and his CWGC record and headstone do not mention his DCM. I am not that familiar with the South African War but according to Peter Abbott in his Recipients of the Distinguished Conduct Medal 1855-1909 there were two men with the surname 'Harding' in the RFA who received the DCM during the South African War 1899-1902: 1. 23289 Dvr. N. Harding, 7 Bty, RFA. London Gazette 18 April 1901; Army Order 163, 1901, details in the London Gazette 8 Feb 1901. ""For coolness and gallantry on 22nd February, when almost the whole gun team was killed by a shell, he extricated the wheel horses single handed, and drove his gun into action with a single pair of horses." 2. 51822 Sgt. W H (or H?) Harding, 21 Bty, RFA; London Gazette 19 Apr 1901; Army Order 163, 1901. (The London Gazette gives this man's name as W. H. Harding, but the QSA roll for 21st Battery, RFA gives this man's name as 51822 Sgt. Henry Harding) Based on the above I think there are a number of problems with your statement: 1. The man who received the DCM with 7th Battery, RFA in February 1900 was Driver N. Harding, not Harry Harding. 2. The H. Harding who received the DCM with 21st Battery, RFA is listed as Sgt. Henry Harding, not Harry Harding. Regards, Dick Flory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
margaretdufay Posted 8 March , 2013 Share Posted 8 March , 2013 Graeme, was this the Yates that i photographed cos I checked the photos and there was no MM on the stone, if it is the same one. Mags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeClarke Posted 9 March , 2013 Author Share Posted 9 March , 2013 Mags, I do not have a headstone pic for Ernest. He is buried in Loos British Cemetery in Grave XX.D.14. Regards, Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
margaretdufay Posted 9 March , 2013 Share Posted 9 March , 2013 no problem i'll be there on monday mags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeClarke Posted 9 March , 2013 Author Share Posted 9 March , 2013 Hi Mags, Please do not make a special journey there just for this headstone, unless you are going there for other headstones. I have a further 10 in this cemetery, so please, do not make a journey just for Yates, Thanks for the thought, really appreciate it, Regards, Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
margaretdufay Posted 9 March , 2013 Share Posted 9 March , 2013 no honestly, i was going so give me their names and i will do them for you mags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeClarke Posted 9 March , 2013 Author Share Posted 9 March , 2013 Hi mags, IF you get chance, the below are the ones I'm after. Ive put them in blocks and they seems pretty much all together. George Reid WALKER Grave XVII.F.4 Samuel Victor ALLEN Grave XVIII.B.9 Thomas Albert BRICKNALL Grave XVIII.B.24 Thomas RYAN Grave XIX.B.9 Sidney PRICE Grave XIX.F.2 Sidney Thomas DANCE Grave XIX.F.4. Daniel ROUND Grave XIX.F.6 John KELLY Grave XIX.F.20 Joseph SPENCER Grave XX.C.25 Sydney Samuel POWELL Grave XX.C.27 Ernest YATES Grave XX.D.14 As always, many thanks, Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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