CWGC Database

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

A question which I am not sure if anyone will be able to answer (Terry?) but here goes.

Why doesn 't the CWGC database list civilian casualties of the Zeppelin air raids in WW1, whearas it lists civilian casualties of the Blitz in WW2. I appreciate there may be a difference in magnitude but what about the principle!

Ian

[Drummy]

Ian,

Are there accurate records listing all ww1 civilian casualties as a result of enemy action? If so, a case worth presenting to the CGWC.

Interested to know the answer myself now ??

Cheers Neil

[Alan Seymour]

It wasn't until WWII that a new category was set up to record casualties killed by the deliberate slaughter of civilians by enemy action, prior to this there wasn't one.

The following is taken from "The Unending Vigil" - A History of the CWGC by Philip Longworth

On 18th September 1940, Sir Fabian Ware wrote to Winston Churchill. 'The deliberate slaughter' of civilians by enemy was 'creating a new category of normal war casualties'. He wanted approval of the principle that theirs 'should be counted an equal sacrifice'. Churchill had no objections. He thought that the number of civilian dead might well exceed the service dead in the present war. It wasn't until January 1941 when the Commission resolved to keep a record of all civilian deaths caused by enemy action and the King granted a supplemental Charter giving it the necessary powers.

I've only just recently received following information myself from Terry Denham about the WW2 Civilian War Dead category:-

“The WW2 Civilian War Dead are not entitled to war grave status or CWGC headstones. CWGC's sole responsibility under their Charter is to record the names. They have no responsibility for their graves and do not record their location. The record for each person does state where they died and, if in hospital, where the fatal injuries were sustained. These names are maintained in large books in Westminster Abbey and one page is turned each day."

From the information given in 'The German Air Raids On Great Britain 1914-1918 by Capt. J. Morris, and ‘Official History of the Great War – Principal Events 1914-1918.’

There were a total of 5,751 bombs dropped on land from Airships causing the following casualties 556 killed and injuring 1,338. The first Airship raid took place on Jan 19th 1915 and the last on Aug 5th 1918. From Aeroplanes a total of 2,705 bombs were dropped on land causing the following casualties 857 killed and injuring 2050. The first raid where bombs were dropped on English soil was on Dec 24th 1914 and the last was on Jul 20th 1918

In all this totals to 1,413 killed and 3,388 injured during 'Air Raids'- no mention is made as to whether these are civilian deaths or a combination of civilian and service dead, I expect it's the latter. In addition to these figures you would need to add the civilian casualties caused by the German Naval raids on Scarborough, Whitby and Hartlepool on Dec. 16th 1914. (A full list of civilian names can be found in Mark Marsay’s excellent book ‘Bombardment! The Day the East Coast Bled’) there may have been other raids Yarmouth springs to mind but not sure whether there were any civilian deaths?

Alan Seymour

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

Neil,

To be honest, I don't know!

But a Zeppelin raid on Folkstone is well catalogued and there is even a website about it - 3 of my extended family were listed as being killed in it

Ian

[Greenwoodman]

Plus civilians drowned when ships were torpedoed or mined. I've got one lost on the ss Maloja - he was a dockyard articifer en route to a naval dockyard overseas when mined off Dover.

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

Alan,

We posted at the same time

I wasn't looking for anyone to tend their graves or give them a headstone, just to record their deaths, which did result from enemy action.

Ian

[Drummy]

Ian,

Perhaps it would be worth you asking for members of the Forum to email you all the 14-18 civilian casualties they know of and a list be compiled, which ultimately could be put into the form of an overall Roll of Honour to be placed as a link on a site such as this?

Many thanks Neil.

[Terry Denham]

Sorry for not posting earlier - been on active duty at Varlet Farm.

Alan has summed up the matter very well above.

CWGC only record those whom they are required to record in their Royal Charter & amendments. I am sure they would not object to recording WW1 civilians (an idea with which I totally agree) but it would require a supplementary Charter and more cash! The latter, I suspect, more difficult than the former!

Don't forget that when you are compiling a list of WW1 civilian casualties, the CWGC would have to record all Commonwealth civilians who died through enemy action - wherever.

The Charter covering WW2 civilians placed no responsibility for grave maintenance or recording on the Commission and the said civilians had to die through enemy action (unlike service personnel). This would mean that casualties through war work accidents (munition explosions etc) would not count as they did not in WW2.