Were these the remains of a German soldier?

[Tony43]

These two early post-war picture postcards have intrigued me for some time. They both carry printed details on the reverse saying that the picture on the front shows the corpse of Rammler - a German soldier.. At first sight the corpses and the coffins look the same - but look again!

The postcard illustrated above on the left has on the back of it a roundel on which is printed ‘PHOTOTYP . INDUST . BELGE . P.I.B.’ and along the bottom is the announcement ‘Cliché et edit R. Ringoet, 639, ch. Louvain, Brux (Repr. Interd.)’ Next to these printing details appears a few lines in three different languages. The English version says,

"Rammler, a German soldier shot (without trial) at the same time as Baucq and Miss Cavell, for refusing to fire on this nurse. His coffin was found between these two patriots."

Baucq was Phillippe Baucq, shot alongside Nurse Edith Cavell on 12th October 1915, for harbouring British soldiers and helping them to escape. But who was Rammler? Rowland Ryder’s book Edith Cavell (1975) does not mention Rammler by name, but does say something of his execution and contends that he was interned by Captain von Cornberg. Ryder also gives a few details about "the many stories of how Edith Cavell met her death."

One story was that a member of the firing squad refused to shoot a women, whereupon he was himself shot, and buried at the same time as Nurse Cavell. This is what the card contends, but according to Ryder this legend was effectively disproved by Theodore Felstead in his account Edith Cavell: the Crime that Shocked the World (1940) of the activities of a German N.C.O. who worked in the Zeppelin sheds at Evere, near Brussels, and who sold information to Allied agents. The Germans detected him, made him work for them for a time and when his usefulness was at an end shot him at the Tir National.

The same picture also exists as one of a set of eight. The set was originally issued in a folder, which has printed on the front of it, "National Shooting Gallery (BELGIUM) SOUVENIR of the CIVILIAN MARTYRS of the GREAT WAR 1914-1918." Inside are eight postcards and printed on the back of each is text in three languages and ‘Photo F. MAT, 90 Rue Georges Leclerq, Forest (Reproduction interdite).’ The text on this identical card however is different,

"The German officer shot at the Brussels North Station, as he delivered false passe ports to Belgians wishing to join through Holland. He wore the Belgian colors in his button hole. That little patriotic souvenir was taken by Dr Vandenven of Schaerbeek and carefully conserved."

Another card (the one Illustrated above on the right) from the folder, appears at first sight to be a close-up view of the identical two cards described above. However, the position of the corpse’s left arm and the shape of the bottom end of the coffin are quite different though the English text on the back of the card says it is of "Rammler, a German soldier shot for refusing to fire on Miss Edith Cavell."

A similar name to Rammler was mentioned in a brochure on Edith Cavell. It was produced by ‘the P.C.C. of Swardestone, Norwich (where Edith Cavell spent her childhood) and it was said to quote Arthur Mee’s story of a private Rimmel throwing down his rifle at Nurse Cavell’s execution and then being shot form refusing orders.

So there are two postcards by different printer/publishers each clearly showing different corpses in similar but different coffins, with both said to be the body of Rammler.

Another card issued by P.I.B. carries the same picture as the one illustrated on the left and, just to confuse matters further, it has a caption on the back; it does not say it was Rammler (though the corpse's buttonhole story appears again) and there are other similarities. Here is the English version in full.

"German officer shot behind the right ear at Brussels North Station while preparing a false passport for a Belgian who wished to go to Holland. The corpse, still wearing rough sandals and wrapped in tarpaulin, eas (sic) taken to the Tir National and buried in a thicket where it as afterwards found in the course of his inspections by Mr. Colinet, a former Director. In the buttonhole of the tunic of this pro-Belgian was a ribbon of the Belgian national colours. The inscription in indelible pencil on the coffin is illegible except for the word 'Krasskell'.

Here we have contradictory captions. Assuming that one card is of Rammler, we also have him in another coffin. The first card said nothing about forged passports and a patriotic buttonhole, and seemingly, different locations are given for the forger's death. One caption gives the impression that he was executed, another that he was summarily shot at a railway station. One caption says that he was killed while preparing a forgery, another when he was delivering his work. Yet another says it was he who refused to fire on Nurse Cavell and that his body was found between her and Baucq.

All very confusing!

[Seadog]

I have read your post with interest Tony and have responded to give it at least ONE view!

Regards

Norman

PS Amazing the moment I posted this the VIEWS shot up from ZERO to150! methinks yet another glitch here, mind you not so annoying as the silly "hover over buttons" which automatically activate strikethrough, tiny text and underline etc!.

[AlanCurragh]

There is a thread about the zero view issue in About this Website - I think it is a glitch of some sort that is being investigated

[Guest exuser1]

On the card on the left , the figures right arm seems to have a cuff rank ? oddly the boots seem in very good condition ?

[phil@basildon]

The foot of the coffin on the right appears to have been damaged, the inverted V section appears to have very recently been broken off. There are similarities in the background that suggests that both photographs were taken at the same place and time. The coffin on the right is a lot closer to the fence in the background which leads to two possibilities. a) They are two different individuals exhumed at the same time, or they are of the same person and the coffin was moved resulting in damage to the coffin and disturbing of the remains. I am inclined to think that they are two different bodies but it is possible that if it is the same coffin it could have been dropped or collapsed whilst being moved and the body being spilled out.

[Guest exuser1]

On looking again I am with 2 separate bodies ,the figure on he right facial wise seems to be in a worse state of preservation ,and the body on the left the boots are in almost new condition .

[phil@basildon]

Yes, two different bodies. The coffins are shaped differently, the one on the left is 'coffin shaped' whilst the right hand one appears to have straight sides. Also the occupant of the right hand coffin appears to be barefoot and have trouser turn-ups (civvies?).

[Auimfo]

Firstly, the coffin on the right once appears to have had a triangular piece of timber at the base but it has obviously broken off. It was no doubt nailed to the two timber uprights poking out at the base (a similar two upright timbers can be faintly seen fixed to the triangular timber at the head end of the coffin).

I also believe the two photos have been taken at the same time and place. The coat on the chap standing next to each coffin appears the same and some of the other background seems to co-incide.

BUT - I do not believe they are the same corpse. One appears to be military and the other civilian and the condition of both is vastly different.

Therefore my best guess is that TWO coffins have been exhumed and photographed at the same place. I have no idea who they might be but based on the information suggested and by others above, perhaps Baucq AND Rammler??? (and the fact both have been taken at same time and place might explain why printers confused the photos to both be of Rammler).

Cheers,

Tim L.

[Auimfo]

Actually, I have just seen online photos of Edith Cavell's original grave in Belgium and also the exhuming of her remains for transportation back to England. Interestingly, the background of those photos are surprisingly very similar to the photos above - particularly the railing fence.

Just food for thought.

Cheers,

Tim L.

[PFF]

Links of interest

http://www.palmerstonauctions.co.uk/current.asp?SN=133&IMH=Postcards

http://www.postcardman.net/justice_murderers.html

http://sozial.goetheanum.org/fileadmin/sozialwissenschaft/2013/Edith_s_Wonderland_010513.pdf

http://creatingpicturesinmymind.blogspot.com/2009/07/reality-of-war-2.html