e-remes Posted 10 February , 2013 Share Posted 10 February , 2013 May I lean on the combined knowledge of the forums. I have recently acquired an SMLE- deac (see photos). I believe from 4th Gordons guide, it may be a dispersal weapon can anyone confirm/ deny please. Oh and I know it's dated 1943, but I thought I'd ask on here anyway. Cheers in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
303man Posted 10 February , 2013 Share Posted 10 February , 2013 Yes a Dispersal rifle one of 60,000 made (estimated) between 1942 and 1944 N is the correct prefix to the Serial Number for 1943 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e-remes Posted 10 February , 2013 Author Share Posted 10 February , 2013 Yes a Dispersal rifle one of 60,000 made (estimated) between 1942 and 1944 N is the correct prefix to the Serial Number for 1943 Ta very much. Are there any resources relating to the whys and wherefores of dispersal rifles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 10 February , 2013 Share Posted 10 February , 2013 Ta very much. Are there any resources relating to the whys and wherefores of dispersal rifles? Yes - the most obvious being Ian Skennerton's "The Lee Enfield" (previous editions The Lee Enfield Story) but this is an expensive, comprehensive tome covering everything. The short story is - the BSA plant was heavily damaged by bombing and the production of sub-components was "dispersed" around the place to make it less vulnerable. The No4 rifle was coming on-line and so production of the No1 rifle was at lower levels but this dispersed production continued until 1944 as .303 man says. Some of the late produced ones appear to use recycled receivers as there seem to be concave grindings on the writst where the orignal markings were removed and the dispersal markings overstamped. I have not been able to confirm this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e-remes Posted 10 February , 2013 Author Share Posted 10 February , 2013 Another trip to the Royal Armouries library it is then. Thank you Gentlemen for your rapid assistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 10 February , 2013 Share Posted 10 February , 2013 There is only about a page of information in TLE on dispersal rifles (p176-7) and it does not really add much to what you have here unless you want annual production estimates. Might not be worth a special trip unless you are looking for a reason to go! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e-remes Posted 10 February , 2013 Author Share Posted 10 February , 2013 Cheers Chris Leeds is just up the road and there's other stuff to look at too (in the archives.) Iain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave1418 Posted 10 February , 2013 Share Posted 10 February , 2013 Hi The rear of the bolt/cocking piece is of the much earlier oval variety, so you may have a mix and match of various parts unfortunately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 10 February , 2013 Share Posted 10 February , 2013 Hi The rear of the bolt/cocking piece is of the much earlier oval variety, so you may have a mix and match of various parts unfortunately Many of the dispersal rifles have a mix of styles of parts (probably unsurprising given how they were produced) Several of my inter-war production rifles (iraq contract, siam contract and others) have this style of cocking piece and I suspect (like slimmer cross-section fore-ends, (re)installing cut-offs and marking discs) that there as a return to producing this style of cocking piece after 1918. Having said that 3 of my 4 dispersal rifles have the simplified slab-sided piece. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depaor01 Posted 10 February , 2013 Share Posted 10 February , 2013 Is a dispersal rifle the same as a Peddle Scheme? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 11 February , 2013 Share Posted 11 February , 2013 Is a dispersal rifle the same as a Peddle Scheme? No, not really. Although there are some similarities in that rifles ended up being assembled from components produced at different locations. The "peddled scheme" was originally an attempt to set up alternative manufacturing companies and sites to challenge the RSAF monopoly. This was done under the name Standard Small Arms (SSA). They had lots of production difficulties (not least loss of staff to the RSAF and other labour disputes) and were eventually nationalised as the NRF (National Rifle Factories) . The dispersal program was a WWII measure to mitigate the effects of bombing (by dispersing production sites) whereas this was not the motivation behind the "peddled scheme" There is some dispute about how many peddled scheme rifles were produced and where they were assembled (or indeed if complete rifles rather than components were ever produced) - the data on Dispersal rifles is much clearer. (unlike this explanation!) Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depaor01 Posted 11 February , 2013 Share Posted 11 February , 2013 Thanks Chris, clear enough for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbox Posted 11 February , 2013 Share Posted 11 February , 2013 The "Dispersal" scheme wasn't actually limited to rifles, and it wasn't directly linked to the German bombing of the plant (actually the third bombing raid). BSA had dozens of factories concentrated around Small Heath making all sorts of equipment. The Ministry of Supply wanted all of the production dispersed, partly in order to dilute BSA's skilled workforce with newly available war labour (of course lots of women). There were over 70 BSA factories resulting from the "Dispersal", only a few of which assembled rifles or rifle components. Worth checking whats left of the barrel: a large batch of Dispersals from around serial N22000 were fitted with rare 4-groove barrels. Apparently just one sub-contractor made these barrels - probably they only had the one unique rifling cutter! N 23263 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e-remes Posted 12 February , 2013 Author Share Posted 12 February , 2013 Worth checking whats left of the barrel: a large batch of Dispersals from around serial N22000 were fitted with rare 4-groove barrels. Apparently just one sub-contractor made these barrels - probably they only had the one unique rifling cutter! N 23263 A 4 groover it is. How rare does that make it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbox Posted 13 February , 2013 Share Posted 13 February , 2013 A 4 groover it is. How rare does that make it? Difficult to say. There is no production data available, as far as i am aware. I haven't seen another 4-groove reported in the four or five Enfield forums i haunt, but of course that may be because people are unaware of their existence, and thus don't notice when they look down the bore. Its notoriously difficult to count grooves in a bore just by eye - some people with two-groove No4 barrels swear blind that they only have one groove! I haven't seen another 4-groove in the thirty or so Dispersals I've looked at in the past few years, so I'd guess the batch was five thousand or even much less. I did hear once of a de-act owner who claimed to have a 3-groove No4. Unconfirmed, but if true, that would be a super-rare, possibly unique, survivor of the No4 barrel trials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e-remes Posted 20 February , 2013 Author Share Posted 20 February , 2013 Would it be wrong to re-black the bolt and magazine as they are losing the pakerisation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbox Posted 21 February , 2013 Share Posted 21 February , 2013 Would it be wrong to re-black the bolt and magazine as they are losing the pakerisation? Its your rifle, so there is nothing right or wrong about what you do to it! Speaking as a dealer/collector, as are many others on this forum, I would say that "refinishing", "restoring" and "cleaning" can all have a very detrimental effect on the aesthetics and value of an old rifles - as perceived by most others. Essentially, you have a 70-year old rifle that looks pretty original, and has an amount of patina and wear that looks appropriate to its originality. It actually looks much as it would have done in service - wear on the bolt handle, magazine and exposed metalwork is the result of normal service handling. What you find if you refinish part or all of the metalwork of an old rifle is that you get a really jarring mismatch between the "new" bits and the "old" bits. It gets even worse if you clean the woodwork and remove the patina and lustre that has taken 70 years to develop (and for which there is no restoration solution-in-a-bottle available). What most of us do is a particular part really is worn - ie a magazine shell that is practically in the white with no finish at all - then we replace it with a "worn" part where the finish matches the overall look of the rifle. These worn parts blend in completely. Maybe if you have a friendly Enfield dealer nearby, just borrow some new condition parts and see how they look? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 21 February , 2013 Share Posted 21 February , 2013 I agree entirely with Thunderbox. If the rifle were functional and parts needed replacement for mechanical/safety reasons then that is one thing but I wouldn't touch yours. There are some thrashed oil-soaked battered and incomplete rifles that I would "restore" but yours is not one of them. Just my 2p Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
e-remes Posted 21 February , 2013 Author Share Posted 21 February , 2013 Thanks again. I may just apply some oil to counteract the rust dots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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