AnnieMac48 Posted 28 January , 2013 Share Posted 28 January , 2013 Wondering if anyone can idenfity the uniform in the photograph. It may be my grandmother's brother James McGregor who was in the Royal Engineers. This is taken from a wedding photograph, but I don't know if it is James' wedding which was in 1908. Also, I know it is not a great photo, but maybe somebody will recognise the medal? Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alf mcm Posted 28 January , 2013 Share Posted 28 January , 2013 Annie, I have checked the medal rolls on Ancestry, and they do not show any medals awarded to a James McGregor serving in the Royal Engineers. The uniform could be Royal Engineers, but it could also be that of a line infantry regiment with collar and cuffs of dark blue, the same as the Royal Engineers. Also, Findmypast has Army pension records of a James McGregor, born Edinburgh, 1862, and 2 J. McGregors {no further details}, who served in the Royal Engineers before the Great War. Perhaps one of them is your man. Regards, Alf McM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 28 January , 2013 Share Posted 28 January , 2013 Hi Anne, Welcome to the Forum. This photo is almost certainly pre WW1, and the man appears to be wearing a Queen's South Africa Medal--although the image is a little indistinct! As Alf has already said it is almost impossible to ascertain which unit he was serving with, but hopefully some other member or members will be along soon with an answer. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnnieMac48 Posted 28 January , 2013 Author Share Posted 28 January , 2013 Hello Alf and Robert Thank you so much for answering so quickly! The person who I wondered if this may be served in the Royal Engineers. So sorry, I should have been paying attention, his name wasn't James (that was his step-dad) his name was John Gregor McGregor and I found his information from Pension Record and medal cards on Ancestry this evening. He was in the Army for 21 years and was awarded Meritorious Service, Good Conduct, Long Service and something for China 1900-1901. Probably he was awarded others, but it doesn't say on the cards. John was married in 1908, and because people in the photograph are in Edwardian dress, I thought the date could be right for it being his wedding. (The whole photo was too large to upload). He joined the R E in 1889, so by the date of his marriage (1908) he perhaps wouldn't have all that many medals. From what you've said the person in the photograph probably isn't John Gregor McGregor at his wedding, it may be someone else in the family who was also a soldier. If that is a Queen's South African Medal then it definitely isn't him. Regards Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 29 January , 2013 Share Posted 29 January , 2013 Annie, the Royal Engineers (RE) had a distinctive scarlet tunic that was substantially different to the infantry pattern. First and foremost it had 9 buttons closely spaced as opposed to the 7 buttons with greater spacing used by the infantry. The piping down the front edge was blue compared with the white of the infantry and, finally, the RE had yellow cord trim to their dark blue collar as opposed to white and the same cord formed a very distinctive Austrian knot on each cuff. Given that two buttons would be hidden by the waist belt, it does not seem impossible that the photo shows a RE. Notice in particular the collar trim and compare with my colour image and also the doubled cord shoulder strap that can be seen clearly on the seated man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 29 January , 2013 Share Posted 29 January , 2013 He does appear to be wearing a China 1900 War Medal without clasp... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnnieMac48 Posted 29 January , 2013 Author Share Posted 29 January , 2013 Hello Staffsyeoman Thank you for that. I've been searching on the internet for medals which look like they have a ribbon with pale coloured bars on the outside and a broad dark bar in the middle. You can't really see anything else other than the vague outline in the photograph. Jock had been in China 1900-1901 and India 1901-1905. He was married in 1908, so the China 1900 War Medal could easily be the medal he's wearing in the photograph. Another bit of the jigsaw in place. Kind regards Annoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnnieMac48 Posted 29 January , 2013 Author Share Posted 29 January , 2013 I've been sent another photograph of the soldier in the wedding photograph, a much more detailed one. I think it confirms the opinion that his uniform is Royal Engineers and the badge was the China Medal 1901. But I'm no expert!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 29 January , 2013 Share Posted 29 January , 2013 The transcription of McGregor on Ancestry's China Medal rolls has a space between the Mc and the Gregor. There is a J McGregor in the 4th Section, Royal Engineers awarded the china Medal 1900 with no clasps. He is numbered 3563 and a Lance-Corporal. Next to his name he has the comment "Experimental B.S. Bengal S.M. India" Here is the link: http://search.ancest...rc=&pid=1918178 "Bengal S.M." could be "Bengal Sappers & Miners" Edit: Ah, got it - "Experimental Balloon Section, Bengal Sappers & Miners" Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 29 January , 2013 Share Posted 29 January , 2013 And his medals sold at auction for £1,200 a while back: Lot 929, 7 Jul 2010 Category: CAMPAIGN GROUPS AND PAIRS Estimate: £600-£800 Hammer Price: £1200 Description A rare Boxer Rebellion and Great War M.S.M. group of three awarded to Foreman of Works J. G. McGregor, Royal Engineers, who served with No. 4 Balloon Section R.E. in China 1900 China 1900, no clasp (3563 L. Cpl. J. McGregor, R.E.); Army Meritorious Service Medal, G.V.R., 1st issue (3563 F. Of W. Q.M. Sjt. J. G. McGregor, R.E.); Army L.S. & G.C., G.V.R., 1st issue (3563 F. Of W. Q.M. Sjt. J. G. McGregor, R.E.) together with a small gilt ‘Balloon School Royal Engineers’ medallion, nearly extremely fine (4) £600-800 Footnote M.S.M. London Gazette 22 February 1919: ‘In recognition of valuable services rendered in connection with the War.’ As a Lance-Corporal McGregor served with No. 4 Balloon Section Royal Engineers in the Boxer rebellion in North China, 1900-01, for which he received the China Medal without clasp, one of 80 such awards to this unit. The roll also confirms that he was one of 7 men subsequently transferred to the Experimental Balloon Section, Bengal Sappers and Miners, for service in India. Sold with copy medal roll and copied extracts from The Indian Sappers and Miners by E. W. C. Sandes, which describes the work of No. 4 Balloon Section in China, and of the Experimental Balloon Section in India. http://www.dnw.co.uk/medals/auctionarchive/searchcataloguearchive/itemdetail.lasso?itemid=73217 Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnnieMac48 Posted 30 January , 2013 Author Share Posted 30 January , 2013 Hi Steve What a lovely website this is, where people take the time to help others. Wow!!! you've found a real gem here, and a brilliant bit of information to add to John Gregor McGregor's story. I only have basic Ancestry membership, so didn't even know you could search for China Medal Rolls. I tried looking up the London Gazette online, but had no success as I think the date I had from the pension records was wrong. But here it all is, along with the explanation about the special baloon section in India. I can hardly believe it!! In three days I've gone from knowing very little about Jock to receiving his wedding photos and then finding out all about his career in the Army, and even that his medals have been sold. Thank you so much Steve and all the others on this forum who helped with this, it means such a lot to me. Kind regards Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 30 January , 2013 Share Posted 30 January , 2013 There is usually a slight variation between street and publishing date. Here is his Gazette page: War Office, 22nd February 1919 His Majesty the KING has been graciously pleased to approve of the award of the Meritorious Service Medal to the undermentioned Warrant Officers, Non-Commissioned Officers and Men in recognition of valuable services rendered in connection with the war : — ROYAL ENGINEERS 3563 F. of W. Q./M./Sjt. J. McGregor, J. G. (Ruscombe). http://www.london-ga...upplements/2692 The Gazette announcement was just that and did not carry a detailed citation, though most M.S.M.s were for continuing excellent service. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 31 January , 2013 Share Posted 31 January , 2013 I've been sent another photograph of the soldier in the wedding photograph, a much more detailed one. I think it confirms the opinion that his uniform is Royal Engineers and the badge was the China Medal 1901. But I'm no expert!! Annie I am glad that it all worked out and I have replied to your last PM, but I guess that with all the excitement you missed it. I would be very grateful if I could have a jpg. copy of the large photo you posted here. If you can send it via email that would be great. I use such clear images of uniform patterns to help others when they are seeking an ID. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnnieMac48 Posted 31 January , 2013 Author Share Posted 31 January , 2013 Hi there Frogsmile Yes of course, I'll email the picture to you. Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 31 January , 2013 Share Posted 31 January , 2013 Hi there Frogsmile Yes of course, I'll email the picture to you. Annie Thank you Annie. I have sent you my address by PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnnieMac48 Posted 31 January , 2013 Author Share Posted 31 January , 2013 Steve, I copied the page from the London Gazette to add to Jock's history. Thanks again for all your help. Kind regards Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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