RaySearching Posted 26 January , 2013 Share Posted 26 January , 2013 I have come across a soldier in the R.F.A who's rank is given as wheeler what exactly is the rank "wheeler" and what would his duty's have been please enlighten me regards Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoppage Drill Posted 26 January , 2013 Share Posted 26 January , 2013 A wheeler is a horse in a gun team. It relates to the position in the team. I imagine that the term "wheeler" if used of a human would be a contraction of his trade designation, "wheelwright" rather than a rank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 26 January , 2013 Share Posted 26 January , 2013 No 3 driver http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=182931entry1779171 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoppage Drill Posted 26 January , 2013 Share Posted 26 January , 2013 The horses nearest the limber are the wheelers. If the team was driven postillion then the driver on the left wheeler would be No 3 only if there were three pairs in the team. His rank, of course, would be Driver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinrowlinson Posted 26 January , 2013 Share Posted 26 January , 2013 Stappage Drill is correct. A wheeler (human) was an artificer and was an appointment that could be given to the rank of Gunner or Driver. Not sure if he would have been asked to get on a horse that often, they had drivers for that. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 26 January , 2013 Author Share Posted 26 January , 2013 A wheeler is a horse in a gun team. It relates to the position in the team. I imagine that the term "wheeler" if used of a human would be a contraction of his trade designation, "wheelwright" rather than a rank. Hi thanks for the reply's The soldier in question 1472 W Carr's rank is given as a "Wheeler" on both Cwgc and SDGW which prompted me to ask the question as I have not come across the "rank" previously CWGC entry here I understand the term wheeler regarding the position of horses what I don't understand why his rank is given as a "Wheeler" as opposed to driver Quote (if used of a human would be a contraction of his trade designation, "wheelwright" rather than a rank.) this would make more sense to me can anybody clarify further Thanks Regards Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 26 January , 2013 Author Share Posted 26 January , 2013 Hi Having just entered “Wheeler” into Geoffs search engine on cwgc It brings up 125 records of soldiers with the rank of “Wheeler” including variations Rank Corporal Wheeler Sergeant Wheeler Quatermaster Sergeant Wheeler Staff Sergeant Wheeler And Rank Gunner Trade Wheeler Rank Staff Sergeant Trade Wheeler appears to be from the results both a rank and a trade regards Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinrowlinson Posted 26 January , 2013 Share Posted 26 January , 2013 Technically it was an appointment (or trade if you would prefer) that could be given to a rank. Just "wheeler" would imply the lowest rank. If he had been a NCO the he could quite rightly be called a Wheeler Corporal or Wheeler Serjeant. Have a look at post 68 here, http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=176097&st=50 , where I posted KRs for the lower ranks and the appointments that could made to them. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 26 January , 2013 Author Share Posted 26 January , 2013 Many thanks for the link Kevin I may have to read the "link" you have kindly provided, previously posted by your goodself ,several times for it all to sink in makes ranks, appointments and trades a lot clearer Regards Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 26 January , 2013 Share Posted 26 January , 2013 Hello Ray The Army did not use the civilian term "wheelwright" in its trade definitions. A wheeler (man) would repair not only wheels, but also the woodwork of carts and wagons, just as a saddler would deal with all the leatherwork of harness and saddlery, and a shoeing-smith with horseshoes and (possibly) other metal work. All were grouped together as "arificers" in tables of war establishments. A wheeler (horse) was ridden or led by a Driver, not a wheeler (man). Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horatio2 Posted 26 January , 2013 Share Posted 26 January , 2013 About a dozen Royal Marine ORs of the Divisional Train RND were awarded their medals in the rank of Wheeler RM according to the RM Medal Roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinrowlinson Posted 26 January , 2013 Share Posted 26 January , 2013 Quote, "A wheeler (horse) was ridden or led by a Driver, not a wheeler (man)." Exactly as I see it Ron. Strangely in KRs a man could also be appointed "artificer" although I have never seen it used. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinrowlinson Posted 26 January , 2013 Share Posted 26 January , 2013 Quote, "About a dozen Royal Marine ORs of the Divisional Train RND were awarded their medals in the rank of Wheeler." I know it seems strange but I have always assumed it was because it was taken as given, rather than having to write out "gunner wheeler" or "private piper" etc.. The only ones that are listed as such is "armament-private" and armourer-private". Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rivergirl Posted 27 January , 2013 Share Posted 27 January , 2013 My great grandfather was a Wheelright and Carpenter in civvies. His Medal card has him as Wheeler Staff Serjeant. (428 was his TF number) WW1 1914-1918 Description Medal card of James, Arthur Corps Regiment No Rank Royal Horse Artillery 428 Staff Serjeant Royal Horse Artillery Transport 622066 Wheeler Staff Serjeant Date 1914-1920 Catalogue reference WO 372/10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinrowlinson Posted 27 January , 2013 Share Posted 27 January , 2013 Yes rivergirl but you may have noticed that his TFWM was to be engraved Sgt, and his VM & BWM was to be engraved S/Sgt. I have only ever seen "Rank" printed on any official documents, not "Rank or Appointment", and think those that filling out such forms thought it was acceptable to actually put what the man was rather than his substantive rank. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill24chev Posted 27 January , 2013 Share Posted 27 January , 2013 The confusion of Rank/appointment was simplified when REME was established in WW2, Craftsman being the Private equivalent for all trades. However there was usually an Artificer Sergeant Major (ASM) in REME workshops and I believe this could be WOI or WOII. this was a technical appointment. Tthere would also be either a RSM or CSM depending on the size and role of the workshop, If an independent unit it was RSM if attached to an armoured unit it was CSM their duties being that of other RSM's and CSM's. In my time it was usual to refer to WO's and SSgts as for example WOI (RSM) Bloggs, WOII (RQMS) Smollocks or SSgt (CQMS) Thompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honora Posted 2 June , 2015 Share Posted 2 June , 2015 To all authors of posts Many thanks for this topic - I am in the process of researching a wheeler corporal in the RASC and this helped sort out the abbrievations in his service record. Honora Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curhalios Posted 17 August , 2015 Share Posted 17 August , 2015 My Great Uncle, Edward Gayler's service records survive. His service number is 90428 He was an apprentice carpenter in Much Hadham Herts by trade and joined the 7th Bedfords before being 'promoted' (the term used in his service records) to wheeler on 23 July 1915 when he was posted to A Battery 82 Bde RFA. He served at Base Depot 82 Bde RFA to 26 August 1916 and was then posted to 189 Bde RFA to 17 August 1917 when he returned to Base Depot 82 Bde RFA. My knowledge and research does not extend to where the Base Depot would have been, whether he took part in artillery actions as part of A Battery 182 Bde or where the battery might have fought, or where 189 Bde fought. Any suggestions, as ever, greatly appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manipled Mutineer Posted 25 May , 2023 Share Posted 25 May , 2023 On 27/01/2013 at 08:54, kevinrowlinson said: Yes rivergirl but you may have noticed that his TFWM was to be engraved Sgt, and his VM & BWM was to be engraved S/Sgt. I have only ever seen "Rank" printed on any official documents, not "Rank or Appointment", and think those that filling out such forms thought it was acceptable to actually put what the man was rather than his substantive rank. Kevin Just to note that I have a !914-15 Star, British War Medal and Victory Medal group to a Staff Sergeant Wheeler in the Army Service Corps. The reverse of the 1914-15 Star is impressed S-SJT.WHLR (the British War Medal and Victory Medal are impressed S.SGT.). Anthony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 26 May , 2023 Share Posted 26 May , 2023 (edited) 19 hours ago, Manipled Mutineer said: Just to note that I have a !914-15 Star, British War Medal and Victory Medal group to a Staff Sergeant Wheeler in the Army Service Corps. The reverse of the 1914-15 Star is impressed S-SJT.WHLR (the British War Medal and Victory Medal are impressed S.SGT.). Anthony That is the official combination of rank and appointment. I’ve never discovered why it appears on some WW1 medals but not others. On reflection I think it’s probably because the protocols changed in July 1915, when WOII was introduced. It would explain why the combination appeared on the two stars, presumably as per the King’s Regulations designations that applied before July of the second year of the war. Edited 26 May , 2023 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manipled Mutineer Posted 27 May , 2023 Share Posted 27 May , 2023 17 hours ago, FROGSMILE said: That is the official combination of rank and appointment. I’ve never discovered why it appears on some WW1 medals but not others. On reflection I think it’s probably because the protocols changed in July 1915, when WOII was introduced. It would explain why the combination appeared on the two stars, presumably as per the King’s Regulations designations that applied before July of the second year of the war. Yes, that sounds very plausible. Here is the reverse of the medal I referred to, a 1914-15 Star to T4/037782 S-Sgt-Whlr A H Ruffell ASC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 27 May , 2023 Share Posted 27 May , 2023 (edited) On 27/05/2023 at 10:02, Manipled Mutineer said: Yes, that sounds very plausible. Here is the reverse of the medal I referred to, a 1914-15 Star to T4/037782 S-Sgt-Whlr A H Ruffell ASC Thank you for sight of the inscription. The more I think about it the more sense it makes. Prior to July 1915 there was just the single class of warrant officer and that rank category was the only one that, since 1881, had in addition a defined, but separate appointment (description of his specialism or role)**. All specialist NCOs of ranks below combined the rank and appointment in a single description#. After July 1915 all warrant officers of whatever class had a separate appointment as standard. The upper layers of staff sergeant were elevated to warrant officer class 2 along with those infantry colour sergeants holding the appointment of company sergeant major. Thereafter only the rank seems to have appeared on the medals and the appointment was left out. **in some cases the same appointment, but divided into classes, e.g. 1st and 2nd Class Master Gunner. 1st and 2nd Class Staff Sergeant Major, Conductor and Sub-Conductor. All were of the single rank of warrant officer prior to July 1915 (therefore seniority was by appointment, including date of appointment, if comparing men of the same level of appointment). #e.g. farrier staff sergeant, armourer staff sergeant, wheeler staff sergeant, mechanist staff sergeant, etc. NB. If it seems complicated it’s because it was an [largely successful] attempt to retain ancient regimental ranks, but bring order and coherence by lumping them in groups as various classes of warrant officer, in order to make ‘equivalence’ much clearer than it had been before. Edited 30 May , 2023 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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