(Suggestion of) German war dead names to appear alongside British war

[RobL]

Not as likely to happen as the Daily Mail seems to make out once you actually read the text, but an interesting suggestion;

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2265379/Names-German-soldiers-appear-alongside-British-war-dead-commemorate-100-years-First-World-War.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

My personal thoughts were, if it does go ahead, why the Germans only and not the Turkish, or Austro-Hungarians?

[Ian Riley]

Exactly ... and the French, Belgians, Italians, Bulgarians, Americans, Russians, ...

[Chris_Baker]

The article headline says "of all nations". It will cost £2.2m. Money well spent? Personally I think not.

[Alan Tucker]

It's a gimmick. The money could be better spent on sending more schoolchildren to the Western Front.

[redbarchetta]

Agree with Chris this is a very transient use for £2.2m, but I wonder what 'global' suggestions such as this are being received by the committee? I'm sure they have had lots of "can we clean/repair/replace/create a village war memorial" bids, but there needs to be some grander proposals, that capture the national imagination. I certainly haven't come up with one - has any GWF member, I wonder?... Without these, the crackpot ideas get the money by default.

James

[Dragon]

The newspaper piece includes someone saying that if this were to happen it would need sponsorship.

I wonder where the Mail got the story from? It fits in with the Mail's tendency to run pieces intended to inflame passions against Germany on three days out of every four. The Mail having run the story, it has now propagated among section of the press but I can't pin down a source.

I don't have much against people coming up with divergent ideas if they can fund them and put together a considered business proposal. They might spark off practical ideas among other people. As James suggests, something wider than communities solemnly repairing or rebuilding memorials ... something with a bit of flair...

Gwyn

[Kath]

"The names of British servicemen and women would also be displayed for several minutes while overseas soldiers would be shown for 25 seconds each."

I think the money would be better spent on photographs of memorials, and headstones, showing the names. These could be put on a website.

The GWF is often asked for pictures of graves and memorials.

Kath.

[redbarchetta]

Does the CWGC not still do this, if you ask them nicely (i.e. take a photo of a specific grave for family that cannot go themselves)?

How about linking the CWGC database with the NA database and London Gazette archive, so the details page for a casualty on CWGC website also provides links (and or the images themselves, free!) to other documents e.g. MIC, medical reports, commission notices, gallantry award notices etc... That would keep a few people busy for the duration of the commemorations, I'm sure!!!

James

[ph0ebus]

While the sentiment is nice, I agree that the cost-to-benefit analysis suggests that perhaps the money could be better spent on more tangible, lasting efforts. For example, put the money into a fund for the future identification of recovered remains. Or, preservation of fragile artifacts. Digitization of documents and the creation of a free online archive. Plenty of ideas to go around.

-Daniel

[Guest exuser1]

With the shocking state of many of Britians small local memorials you would believe a programme of refurbishment and recording their location and details placed in a public local archive would be money better spent ?

[Dragon]

If this goes ahead, which is not at all certain, the project would bid for £150k from the Heritage Lottery Fund, which might not agree to the bid. The remainder would be funded by sponsors and as far as I know, sponsors are free to spend their own money on whatever they like.

If people have ideas of their own and can get a team or a community behind their project, then they too can seek sponsors. Lots of companies have funds specifically for community projects.

Gwyn

[Seany]

Seems unnecessarily expensive, if not unnecessary. The Cenotaph does the job well and in a manner of quiet dignity, and I!m sure other nations do what they do to commemorate their own. There is some modern day belief that reading out, or in this case projecting, the names of those who die in conflicts or tragedies needs to be performed but I,m not convinced.

[kenf48]

I wonder where the Mail got the story from? It fits in with the Mail's tendency to run pieces intended to inflame passions against Germany on three days out of every four. The Mail having run the story, it has now propagated among section of the press but I can't pin down a source.

Gwyn

Possibly here http://www.pch.gc.ca/eng/1320936225791

originally mentioned on the Churchill Society Canada website here http://churchillsoci...iety.org where there is a link to here http://www.1914-1918.ca when it was done in Canada in 2010.

It would appear the Cenotaph idea is simply an extension of what was a Canadian commemoration originally narrated by said Robert Thompson (who, according to the Canada Veterans Affairs website is a 'dedicated and persistent' individual).http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/department/mincom/bio/612

Wild guess he's also a self publicist and was the source simply trying to extend what he's already done in 2010 and, originally in 2008, on the rededication of the Vimy Ridge Memorial, apparently.

As for the idea while imho the Cenotaph is not the place, and the scale seems incomprehensible on the other hand the idea of projecting the names over a period in schools, as with the 2010 project seems sound. It might be a good idea if Canadian members could give feedback on how it was received.

Ken

[mandy hall]

This was also reported in the Sunday Times at the weekend page 5. The headline was "Cenotaph tribute to German War Dead" but in the article it mentions "the 9.5 military fatalities from all combatant nations" being displayed.

Mandy

[goldsrobin]

This suggestion is a piece of Whitehall 'eqality' thinking. Sadly, saner voices will not be able to be heard over the correctness babble. Max Wind-Cowie has written a very sensible piece here ; http://huff.to/VXzTIb.

If the Germans, then the Argentinians and Taliban as well, I suppose.

Robin

Edited 23 January , 2013 by goldsrobin

[Guest exuser1]

So if we go for all wars of our involvement ,that includes the old boys from LAH ,Das Reich or will there be a good German test ?

[David Filsell]

I just become less and less surprised at Britain's ability to waste money on 'gestures'; as well as much else.

[Dragon]

Unfortunately the Sunday Times piece is behind a paywall but I cannot find anywhere anything to back up the claim that Andrew Murrison has endorsed this suggestion. Perhaps Max Wind Cowie, as a member of a Conservative think tank, has an insider route to Tory HQ. This has morphed in the press from a rather divergent yet derivative idea to a fact without anything of substance evident in the public domain. Divergent ideas often get toned down and spark other people thinking creatively. I don't see much wrong with that process.

I love the idea that if I agree with the general thinking of the GWF and possibly the entire population I am sane and if I don't, I'm not. And people talk about "political correctness", whatever that means.

Gwyn

[Dragon]

And another thing. People have every right to object to a proposal they don't like the sound of and even to write to Andrew Murrison if they feel strongly. But this projection idea may never happen.

Elsewhere on the GWF I have been drawing people's attention to a real project by a thoughtful, enthusiastic teenager, one which will benefit his community and cause visitors to reflect about the Great War. This has funding and it is happening in Sandbach. He has the attention of historians and the BBC. Yet only two members of the entire GWF can find it in themselves to write a few words of encouragement or interest. Depressing.

Gwyn

[kenf48]

I don't think it's that depressing, Gwyn and in fairness felt compelled to comment given the implied criticism.

The young man you refer to seems to have a great deal of local support for his idea (which actually, might be enhanced by the projection project as applied in Canadian Schools), however it is also derivative. A memorial garden is nothing new, see for example the Household Division Memorial Garden, or the Memorial Sports Grounds that were dedicated in the twenties. His idea while encouraging, draws on the old ideas of Remembrance (just as the proposed projection project at the Cenotaph), as defined two or even three generations ago and that is my objection to so many of he proposals, an observation which has already been expressed (and posted here) much better than I could by Hew Strachan.

My understanding of Discussion Group good practice, among many other rules I try, not always successfully to adhere to, is, 'don't post anything that doesn't add to the discussion'. In other words respect other members and don't waste their time with lots of 'me too' messages.

If the young man you referred to asked for constructive help from the forum then I 'm sure many members would be happy to help and share their knowledge as many do day after day.

I, probably with many others, looked at the link you provided and quite frankly given his own confidence and the support already shown from some heavyweight members he seemed to be doing very well without any words of encouragement from me.

Ken