What will it all mean?

[Moonraker]

So when the commemorations are all over, what impressions do we want, the average teenager, let's say, to have been given?

My interest in the Great War is mainly domestic, parochial even, and I'm not well equipped to debate the broader issues with many of you. But what about the following:

1. Patriotic support from within Britain and from the Empire for the war. (Very out of fashion now, even in retrospect.)

2. Honouring international treaties. (Bit esoteric in this simplistic context.)

3. Countries wanting to settle old scores and keep their rivals in their places. (Almost certainly not "politically correct" for today.)

4. Heroic self-sacrifice by millions of ordinary men and women - not just those who died, but those who suffered mental and physical injuries and loss of family members.

5. A tragic waste that should have been avoided. (How?)

6. A conflict that had to be fought to protect small nations from aggression. (Though I suspect that naming the aggressors will also be non-PC.)

7. A mis-managed Peace paving the way for the Second World War.

Any other ideas? Remember, I'm talking of the average teenager who in 2018 might be asked to write down what (s)he thinks in, say, 50 words.

Moonraker

[Old Tom]

That over a hundred years ago governments of a number of european states allowed themselves to prepare for and fight a terrible war the like of which had not been seen before but which did not prevent an even worse conflict 20 years later.

Its an idea, only 40 words, but unlikely to come to fruition.

Old Tom

[Guest exuser1]

Also how did it feel after the promises made to the lads who went to fight on returning to have been confronted with unemployment , lack of housing and the means test .

[Alan Tucker]

So when the commemorations are all over, what impressions do we want, the average teenager, let's say, to have been given?

My interest in the Great War is mainly domestic, parochial even, and I'm not well equipped to debate the broader issues with many of you. But what about the following:

1. Patriotic support from within Britain and from the Empire for the war. (Very out of fashion now, even in retrospect.)

2. Honouring international treaties. (Bit esoteric in this simplistic context.)

3. Countries wanting to settle old scores and keep their rivals in their places. (Almost certainly not "politically correct" for today.)

4. Heroic self-sacrifice by millions of ordinary men and women - not just those who died, but those who suffered mental and physical injuries and loss of family members.

5. A tragic waste that should have been avoided. (How?)

6. A conflict that had to be fought to protect small nations from aggression. (Though I suspect that naming the aggressors will also be non-PC.)

7. A mis-managed Peace paving the way for the Second World War.

Any other ideas? Remember, I'm talking of the average teenager who in 2018 might be asked to write down what (s)he thinks in, say, 50 words.

Moonraker

Lots of value judgements here...

2. International treaties are not worth anything until tested in a crisis when the interests of a nation might override them.

5. A necessary war with casualties on a new scale created by industrial warfare

6. Seems to suggest we joined to fight for 'poor little Belgium'. That was only a superficial excuse

7. It was the best Peace available given the interests of the victors. The thaws in it could have been managed over time and this happening down to 1928. From 1929 the world economic depression brought about the conditions under which its terms became an arena for conflict rather than a managed phasing into normality.

[Alan Tucker]

An alternative list...

Understanding of...

1.Role of media/propaganda. How opinion is manipulated.

2. Enhanced status for women

3.Scientific and technological improvement

4. Attitudes to refugees

5. How imperial ties later became Commonwealth partnerships

6.Modern role of the UN depends on the willingness of individual states to follow its lead

7. The patriotism of the citizen soldier

8..Extension of democracy

9. What their ancestors did

10. Is support for Belgium the same as recent liberal interventionism

11.The nature of courage. Tommies in a trench as well as conscientious objectors resisting immense pressure to conform. Re the latter the importance of respect for minority opinions

12. Legacy for the modern world - Balfour Declaration, Russian Revolution etc

etc etc

[Mdarbycharles]

That class shouldn't always be listened to.

Too many first world men were private school,based and probably knew as much as me as to how to lead men in battle

Role of women in society

How everybody is affected even today by World War One. Not just family members who had died, but by the memorials around where they live, names of streets etc

How given another time this could have been them

[Moonraker]

To revert to my suggestion of only 50 words, I came up with this:

"It was the widest-spread conflict the world had yet to see, born out of increasing international rivalry, suspicions and tension, characterised by trench and chemical warfare, speeding social and political change and sacrificing millions of lives and ruining countless others - only for worse to occur twenty years later."

Had I allowed myself up to 70 words I would have added something about it being "ignited by the assassination of a minor royal in a country, both unknown to most participants".

Moonraker

[Guest exuser1]

I remember the episode in Steptoe and Son when the old boy is going back to France in 1964 , the son at one point comments on the Great War , yes it was in the 1960s but quite telling , also the episode when asked at British customs for his passport the old mans comment is priceless .

[henryww1]

The Knowledge and understanding of the reasons WHY !

The ability to not let the same happen again and the empathy to not judge.

The passion to move forward without hatred.

[henryww1]

Steptoe and son

The episode where they are on a flight destined for France.

An aguement ensues between the old man and a French and American veteran.

Truly funny and truly realistic of the way in which their own perspectives are colourd,leading to them all falling out over their own part in a war against a foe who isnt even present on the plane.

[Kath]

Skip to 2.02

Kath.

[Guest exuser1]

The episode where the old man is asked at customs as to does he have a passport , his reply words to the effect last time I went 17 years of age ,pack on me back and rifle on me shoulder ,no one asked to see a passport then !

Another episode is when the son questions the war and why they went and what happened on their return ? But then says yes but 20 years later we did the same , it's very 1960s but does ring true .

[healdav]

The episode where the old man is asked at customs as to does he have a passport , his reply words to the effect last time I went 17 years of age ,pack on me back and rifle on me shoulder ,no one asked to see a passport then !

Another episode is when the son questions the war and why they went and what happened on their return ? But then says yes but 20 years later we did the same , it's very 1960s but does ring true .

And the American saying: "Oh yes, the 1917-18 war", and then referring to the "1942-45" war. "Late both times" was the retort.

I have, incidentally, had the odd American who has said this, and even that it couodn't be called a world war until the USA turned up; the involvement of Australia, NZ, India, etc being totally unknown to them.

On the passport theme, a few years ago I was at the opening of an exhibition of WW2 war photos. The US photographer was speaking and said, "The first time I flew the Atlantic I had a rifle, 200 rounds and five hand grenades. This time they were arguing because I have a metal button on my underpants. Forward civilisation".

[auchonvillerssomme]

I suppose it could be argued that given the events post 1918 aren't we just discussing a history that has no relevence to teenagers of today apart from the admiration of a generation?

What did we really learn from that war between 1918 and 1939 or from 1945 until now.

We are still sending men and women to die, although the reasons are now blurred and I don't understand what they really are.

[Seadog]

This sounds good (Not)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/08/first-world-war-kickabout-replayed-centenary

Norman

[Scalyback]

Thank you seadog. Rasied the blood pressure there! Article itself ok but the comments after are complete random tosh!

Secret graveyards for SAD, mutiney, Blackadder was right and germans to win on pens!