HT LEASOWE CASTLE

[KizmeRD]

Curious! Having just sampled numerous pieces of official correspondence (primary source material) relating to several hospital ships, it would seem that HMHS or just plain HS was in general usage up until April 1917 after which the acronym HMAT appears to have become officially adopted (I guess that there must have been some sort of War Office directive issued regarding what to call them).

HMHS = His Majesty’s Hospital Ship

HMAT = Hired Military Ambulance Transport

MB

Edited 15 January , 2022 by KizmeRD

[MerchantOldSalt]

Some years ago whilst delving through one of those box files at Kew, the contents of which don't appear on the index, I came across ten telegrams one of which is attached, relating to instructions to provide Admiralty Ensigns to Naval Hospital Ships of which there were, eventually nineteen.  The telegrams were all dated Dec 1914. The October Navy List shows eleven Naval Hospital Ships.

Also I found an IWM film of the Military Hospital Ship OXFORDSHIRE at Southampton discharging wounded to Netley Hospital, clearly flying an Admiralty Ensign which would appear to back up KizmeRD's find.

I am firmly in the Seajane school of thought, that the initialization HMS has been well and truly misused to describe any ship used by the government before, during and after WW1. I have even found the War Department Cross Channel Train Ferries, owned and run by the Army described in official documents as HMTF No.1 etc.  The Australian and New Zealander Govermnets liked their British Transports taken up from trade to be described as HMAT & HMNZT and this shown in documents as meaning His Majesty's ....... rather than Hired Military so who knows?

Who am I to disagree with Ditmarr & Colledge, there is of course the possibility that the ensigns worn by hospital ships changed through out the war years, they certainly did with other Merchant Ships taken up from trade.

Tony

[JCCambridge]

It seems I may have provoked a well overdue clarification on this prickly subject. Maybe the answer is not definitive but thanks to all for your engagement. It’s been fun to read and hopefully someone with more expertise than me could summarise the outcome. 
If a ship is contracted or commissioned to the British Navy is it entitled or directed to use HM in front of any other letters?  Thanks. John 

[KizmeRD]

Just to add a concluding remark about use of the prefix HMAT.

They (Ambulance Transports) first burst on to the scene with the Gallipoli campaign. They were ordinary merchant ships that were brought into service at short notice in order to cope with large numbers of sick and injured needing to be evacuated which exceeded the capacity of existing hospital ships. Ambulance transports were able to carry in war supplies and take out the walking wounded. They weren’t fitted with the full range of medical facilities that legitimate hospital ships had, and neither did they have any of the international protections provided by the Hague and Geneva Conventions. This first manifestation of ambulance transports were commonly referred to as ‘black ships’ and they largely faded out of existence following the Allied withdrawal from the peninsula.

The next time we see ‘ambulance transports’ appearing in any number is after the resumption of unrestricted submarine warfare in the Spring of 1917 (especially following some well publicised cases of the torpedoing of legitimate hospital ships). This time many of these newly designsted ambulance transports were in fact former hospital ships that no longer believed in the benefit accruing from having official hospital ship status - it was seen as safer not to have to comply with the requirement to sail at night with navigating lights showing, with decks fully lit, and with an illumined red cross displayed (which only afforded a better target for the enemy). Notice was therefore given by the British Government of the withdrawl of certain vessels from the official list of hospital ships published in accordance with international law.

MB

 

Edited 14 January , 2022 by KizmeRD

[horatio2]

32 minutes ago, KizmeRD said:

...Ambulance Transports first burst on to the scene with the Gallipoli campaign.

True but, again, we have a problem with nomenclature. Those hired transports pressed into medical service once they had landed their troops and animals  are usually described as 'auxiliary hospital ships', not least by Nigel Steel and Peter Hart of this parish 

Unfotunately the HMAT prefix was also used (incorrectly IMO) by Australian transports (troopships for the most part) see, for example - https://anzacportal.dva.gov.au/wars-and-missions/ww1/military-organisation/transport).

So, for HMAT we seem to have 'Australian Transports' and 'Ambulance Transports' both with the 'HM'. This is interpreted by some as 'His Majesty's' for a variety of non-commissioned ships (from hospital yachts to cargo ships) or 'Hired Military' by others (myself included).

18 hours ago, JCCambridge said:

a ship is contracted or commissioned to the British Navy

The Admiralty hired numerous ships and boats, few of which (excepting the trawlers and drifters of the Auxiliary Patrol) were commissioned as HM Ships and some of which sailed as Fleet Auxiliaries. Many ships were also placed under government contract by the War Office, including hospital ships, hospital carriers and transports (troopships).

I wish there were a clean answer.

[JCCambridge]

You guys have gone above and beyond the call of duty…thanks for your efforts to clarify the ship titles (I guess this is the name for “HMS” etc). 
It has been useful to follow your various comments. 
What I really need is to discover the correct titles for Gloucester Castle when operating as Hospital Ship in 1917 when torpedoed with Captain Holl in command…and Leasowe Castle in 1918 when torpedoed and sunk in 1918…again with Captain Holl in command. 
The reason is my efforts to compile an accurate list of those lost in 1918 as my grandfather survived this to send a very graphic contemporary account of the incident by letter at the age of 22 as a freshly commissioned Lieutenant in the newly formed Machine Gun Company with Berkshire Yeomanry. 
If you want to read this I can send by email if you send your address to my gmail address. Let me know. 
Thanks. John

[horatio2]

To avoid argument I would use the following factual descriptions (avoiding HMT HMHS, HS, etc):

SS LEASOWE CASTLE (a requisitioned, Defensively Armed Merchant Ship (DAMS) used as a troop transport)

SS GLOUCESTER CASTLE (requisitioned and used as a hospital ship)

Others will have different opinions.

[JCCambridge]

I have read carefully the description given by the Admiralty Board of Enquiry for Leasowe Castle and without exception it states, I quote…His Majesty’s Transport Leasowe Castle or H.M. “Leasowe Castle”. 
I have yet to obtain copy of the enquiry document for Gloucester Castle. 
I therefore am inclined to adopt the contemporary Admiralty’s title. I suspect you will all agree but please let me know as this is important and I would appreciate consensus on this. 

Have any of you more information on either of these two ships?

 Thanks for your help. John

[JCCambridge]

Sorry…or H.M. Transport “Leasowe Castle”. John

[JCCambridge]

Sailing Orders however were transmitted to “The Master of S.S. Leasowe Castle”…so we’re back to square one…!!!

[JCCambridge]

I am beginning to think that there is a distinction between the actual ship SS Leasowe Castle and its functional role designation as H.M.T Leasowe Castle. Both appear to be compatible and concurrent. So one can choose either depending on context. Is this a reasonable conclusion for LS at least? John

[KizmeRD]

When the opportunity arises, it sounds like you should pay a visit to TNA and have a read of ADM137/3584, Loss of S.S. Leasowe Castle (unfortunately not available to download online).

There’s also an earlier Forum thread on the sinking (including some postings from his grandson) - just enter the name of the ship in the search box (top right).

(The ‘steamship’ Leasowe Castle was a ‘hired military transport’ at the time of its sinking - ‘S.S.’ was its more permanent mercantile marine designation and ‘HMT’ a temporary wartime prefix used by the Admiralty and the War Office, but I wouldn’t get too hung up on what precise letters were written in front of the ship’s name, as this was often interchangeable depending on the whim of the writer).

MB

Edited 15 January , 2022 by KizmeRD

[JCCambridge]

The convoy outbound from Alexandria on 26th May 1918 in which HMT Leasowe Castle was sunk by torpedo started out as a convoy of just 6 Troop Ships (HMT's Indarra, Leasowe Castle, Kaiser-i-Hind, Malwa, Canberra and Caledonia with six Japanese escort "destroyers", HIJMS Kashiwa, Kusanoki, Sugi, Kaede, Katsura, and Kanran. They were planned to meet one additional troopship (HMT Ormonde) escorted by HMS Chelmer and  HIJMS Yanaki (some clarity required as HIJMS Hinoki is alternatively mentioned as escort instructions) and HIJMS Momo after about 250 miles. They were sent signals of the Leasowe Castle having suffered torpedo attack when about 100 mile out of Alexandria and went to the rescue. The story is fascinating and there exists a diary of an officer on HMT Indarra and a small number of eyewitness contemporary accounts are now available including that of my grandfather who was a survivor on the Leasowe Castle (luckily for me as I would not have been here otherwise!). I continue to compile the full details as they emerge from the archives and other sources...so please can anyone help with any additional anecdotes or accounts...I am especially keen to hear of troops on board the other six Troop Carriers in that fateful convoy, as these ships played an important, key part in the final years of the Great War. There was a total of around 20000 trips that journey, and at least 2000 or more Machine Gun Corps members on the Leasowe Castle. The Captain Edward John Holl was very much responsible for the relatively small death toll of about 97 named individuals whose details I am also compiling by way of tribute and respect for those who lost their lives, including Captain Holl, who was himself awarded the DSO for saving over 600 injured troops on the HMHS Caledonia in 1917, beaching his command on the Isle of Wight after torpedo attack. Just 3 persons lost their lives on that occasion. He had an eventful marine life commencing with being stranded on Kure Atoll in the Pacific when just 18 years old as apprentice. I am convinced his experiences at sea helped him to remain calm and ensure minimum loss of life that night in 1918...and he paid the ultimate price himself as he went down with his ship as a result...what a man he must have been...