Joe Sweeney Posted 15 December , 2012 Share Posted 15 December , 2012 All, I'd like some opinions on this helmet cover concerning if it could real or not? I picked this helmet up probably 25 years ago in an antique shop in the middle of nowhere USA that had no other WWI items. It is on the Helmet it came on which is a very good condition post mid 1917 with donut. The cover itself was not marked and only ever had it off the Helmet once. It closes by drawstring. If real, I had assumed this to be an Officer's cover. I rarely show this Helmet as I am very suspect of most covers. Opinions welcomed. Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 15 December , 2012 Share Posted 15 December , 2012 Hello Joe I am also suspicious of most covers, and sometimes you just cannot tell either way. But I do like the story of how and where you found this one, although of course that doesn't prove anything on its own. I also like the pattern of edge wear, and the fact that it is not the "classic" four-piece or one-piece cover, but an unusual type that would require some skill to make. We have both seen covers with partial lines of stitching, tho usually two-piece or four-piece, but we also know there is a great variety of types. I do not recall seeing this type in a photo but would not be surprised if I did. Of course it could be a faker's double-bluff, but it seems unlikely, especially if you did not pay too much for it. Ultimately it comes down to "feel". Does it feel right, or believable, to you? I am using the words right and believable here to mean two different things. Right = feels dead on, have no doubts and am very happy with st. Believable = this could be correct, but I'm not absolutely certain and would like a good backstory to give me complete confidence in it. The worst case is believable but with no backstory, and a feeling that st isn't quite right but you can't pinpoint it. Hopefully you are not getting that feeling here. I doubt you will ever be absolutely certain, but if it were mine and it felt ok I would be inclined to accept it. Best wishes, W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 15 December , 2012 Share Posted 15 December , 2012 In the mid to lare eighties when you aquired it would it have been financially worth making it and then selling on for little gain? Seems ok to me but without actually seeing it one cannot say for certain. I perhaps would expect some rust stains flooding through but if it has been stored in a good environment that may not happen. I have three helmet covers, one on an officers with much wear, fraying at edges and rust stains plus a clears mark / stain over the cap badge which is soldered to the helmet underneath the cover and as the cover could not be removed without damaging it it and the badge have been on the helmet for some time. I have a German helmet with a sand bag / hession cover which is very very fragile and has a post home label stitched to it and addressed to a person in New Hampshire, USA. Also inked is the details that it was souvenired at Le Four De Paris, Argonne....77th Div? Finally I have a mint French cover I do have suspicions about!!! All in all I would be happy with yours....now the inverted triangle maybe a late addition???? Regards TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoppage Drill Posted 15 December , 2012 Share Posted 15 December , 2012 Why do you describe the triangle as "inverted"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 15 December , 2012 Share Posted 15 December , 2012 Why do you describe the triangle as "inverted"? Point down. Cheers, GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 15 December , 2012 Author Share Posted 15 December , 2012 All, Thanks for the opinions and I hope more join in. There are actual minor rust through stain on top that match the helmet. I say minor because these could have been caused by sitting in a humid environment. I like the feel and wear and the feel and wear of the cover match the helmet. I don't think this saw much service (helmet or Cover). The wear around the rim was spot on the edge when I got it but when I took it off I could not get the same alignment--The cover fits like a tight glove. WF I will never be 100% certain. The badge paint an application look old and period to the cover with wear and anything. What worries me about the badge is the only unit I could find with that badge is London Scottish (no badge on Helmet). Too famous a unit always makes me suspiciuos. Thanks again and I hope more chime in. Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottmarchand Posted 16 December , 2012 Share Posted 16 December , 2012 From what I can see - I like it. The origin and acquisition don't really suggest a done up lid. I have two similar covers, one came from a trunk of field gear to an officer, basically new, I put it on a helmet to display. It was at a gun show in western Canada 18 years ago, I couldn't buy much else from the table of kit (it was all individually priced and I was still a poor student) it is rubberized inside, multi-piece drawstring tightening lace etc. My other one came from an old London stamp exchange auction from the estate, to another collector, to me. The fellow was a sniper capt. in the East Surrey Regt., it is worn , stained musty and still on the helmet that came with the estate group Sadly his medals went astray in the same auction. I can post some pics if you like. I tend to be wary of theses, but I am comfortable wit the provenance of mine. The thing I notice about the fakes is simpler construction, but hey conform to collectors tastes versus the eccentricities of utility in the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRANVILLE Posted 16 December , 2012 Share Posted 16 December , 2012 Hi Joe. Have you got a photo of the string and how its fastened off? With the string being preserved within the fold-over it would be hard to artificially age if it were a repro as the original will have been wet, then dried then wet etc many times over even if it was only occasionally used. The exterior looks very convincing with numerous scuff markings, but it would be interesting see what type of sting was used and how it has also weathered? Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgardiner1418 Posted 16 December , 2012 Share Posted 16 December , 2012 Joe, Triangle could denote 2/5th Lancs Fusiliers 164th Brigade, 55 West Lancs Division, this device was usualy worn between the shoulders on the back of the tunic but could have been put up on a helmet. All the best, Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 16 December , 2012 Share Posted 16 December , 2012 2/5th Lancs triangle recorded as having 3.75" sides. 14th London, 12th Cheshire and 8th KRR also all with red inverted triangles - 2" sides. Cheers, GT. PS: And I'd not be unhappy with the cover Joe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgardiner1418 Posted 16 December , 2012 Share Posted 16 December , 2012 Grovetown, Agreed the brigade patch is as you have said, I was thinking of perhaps a scaled down version for the helmet. While on the subject of insignia do you have any knowledge of Battalions in 55th Division using coloured tape around the epaulet just below the brass title to indicate Company, I have read of this but never found any reference as to which colour denoted which Company. All the best, Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 16 December , 2012 Author Share Posted 16 December , 2012 Paul/GT. Thanks for the info. I immediately ran out and took measurements of the sign. It's 2 1/16" on each edge. I think that's close to the 2" mark. I keep forgetting I have Waring's Pamphlet No.2 (not that I'm going to pass it on)--I was going off of Chappels illustration in the TF Osprey book. Dave, I took a look at the string--although I'm not pulling it completely out. The string is actually cotton cloth sewn into a cord. It is very frayed at the ends where it ties and from what I can see of the rest it appears to have stain fading etc. All thanks Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRANVILLE Posted 16 December , 2012 Share Posted 16 December , 2012 Dave, I took a look at the string--although I'm not pulling it completely out. The string is actually cotton cloth sewn into a cord. It is very frayed at the ends where it ties and from what I can see of the rest it appears to have stain fading etc. All thanks Joe Joe. I would think the way cotton cloth has been used very much points towards it being genuine. Were it a reproduction, made at some point over the past 25yrs or so, I think the maker would have instinctively used a string of some description. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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