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No 3 Casualty Clearing Station


rugbyremembers
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Can anyone help with details on No 3 CCS? Described as 'near Poperinghe'.

Specifically, exact location, any current day cemeteries that may hold those who died (e.g Elverdinghe?)

Does anyone know of any accounts/war diaries that may reveal if the CCS came under fire from Gerrman artillery?

Context is I am still trying to establish how Capt AF Todd came to be buried in Pop Old Mil Cem, but also on the Menin Gate. One speculative theory is that either the CCS OR the burial ground (before it formally became a cemetery) was hit by a shell. there are many graves at Pop Old Mil Cem, with 'known to be buried here' i.e they are there somewhere but the exact grave site is no longer identifiable. This to my simple mind implies destruction of the burial ground.

Or was it the CCS, where bodies were laid out, prior to the work of burial parties.

Grateful for all wisdom

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  • 5 months later...

Maybe he was missing and then was found in an archelogical dig decades later

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The CWGC should have records showing if the body has been moved from the original location and when the body was located (if it was found later).

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fair enough

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No.3 CCS was fairly central in Poperinghe 'in several buildings in the same street' and was closed when it, and No.5 CCS, were shelled and destroyed at midnight of 26/27th April 1915 - thus the move the following day. It doesn't give any evidence as to the remains of Captain Todd but does show that various areas of the town were destroyed at that time.

Sue

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3 CCS is recorded as being at Hazebrouck from August 1914 until 26/4/15, then Poperinghe itself between 27/4/15 and 14/5/15

3 CCS was definitely in Poperinghe by the 27th March 1915 - there is an entry in the war diary of the Matron-in-Chief when she visited it.

Sue

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Going back to the original question, Captain Todd (died 21/4/15) would have been treated at No 5 CCS which was in Poperinghe from the 15th April.

I'm not sure why. No.3 CCS was in Poperinghe from March 1915. From WO95/3988:

27.3.15

Poperinghe

Left early for Poperinghe with Col. Guise-Moores, to visit 3 Casualty Clearing Station. This is situated in several buildings in one street. A great deal of very serious work is being done with Lt. Col. Boyle and Miss G. M. Smith in charge. The former reported most favourably on the Staff and excellent work which has been done under most trying and difficult circumstances

Sue

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I realise that it's used as the major source, but there are a lot of errors and omissions in it, and as I typed my way through the war diary I did try and pick up other references which have proved useful. But sometimes it's only the CCS war diaries themselves that have the answers. I hope they all end up online by next year.

Sue

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  • 3 weeks later...

Thanks for all the contributions here, especially Sue.

From primary sources (telegrams, witness statements ) at Kew, I am clear that it was 3 CCS. The suggested location at/by Deken der Bolaan supports the use of the nearby Old Mil Cem as burial place for Todd.

The destruction by shelling of the CCS in buildings in that street on night of 26/27 could mean that shells also hit the burial ground, which makes sense of the varied inscriptions on headstones. A recent return visit shows a separately placed group of headstones all with either 'known to be buried here' or 'Believed to be buried here'.

My assumption is that for reasons of space, hygiene and dignity, bodies were laid out and buried quickly. So between his DoD 21/4 and the 26/27 shelling, he would have been safely interred, but others were not so lucky. If the plots were only marked with wooden gravemarkers it would not take much HE to obliterate them.

Still does not explain his place on the Menin Gate, which would be a later clerical return by the Norfolk Regiment. He is the senior Norfolks officer on the Memorial; it seems odd that they should lose track of him in this way. Having said that, there is much undignified telegram traffic between War Office and RHQ trying to ascertain NoK contact data, so the overworked clerks were under huge pressur at every point of the process.

Stephen

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  • 6 years later...

Just getting this old thread out of the mothballs... 

we know that Edith Appleton worked at Nb 3 CCS from April 1915 to the end of the year... her diary opens in Poperinge and reports on the shelling and the subsequent move to a lunatic asylum in Bailleul. 

During that time she worked together with Jeanie Barclay-Smithj who died in Etaples in April 1916. 

Is anybody any closer to having consulted the war diary of Nb 3 CCS (or could tell me where to find it) so as to know in which period of time and in what function (in Nb 24 she was matron) Jeanie Barclay Smith was active in that particular unit?? 

 

Thanks

 

M.

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  • 1 year later...

I downloaded the war diary from TNA- WO95/412

 

David 

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  • 3 months later...

hello, is the war diary of the number 3 CCS online available? I would like to find out on what date a certain soldier was admitted there. Thx for any help 

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However, you could also try Find My Past- the admissions book for 1915 can be accessed- not sure about the other years. 

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On 15/10/2021 at 19:04, David_Blanchard said:

However, you could also try Find My Past- the admissions book for 1915 can be accessed- not sure about the other years. 

 

David, could you please tell me how to find the admissions book on findmypast?

Roel

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Ok David, many thanks.

 

Roel

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