Robert Burnside DOW Gallipoli Interred Sligo

[droberts]

Robert Burnside 338 5th Connaught Rangers, DOW Gallipoli 15/9/1915 as per Soldiers Died In Gt War but buried Sligo according to CWGC. Is this unusual?? If he died in Gallipoli he wouldnt have been a repatriated wounded casualty. Any suggestions??

Thanks

[jdoyle]

a note on a family tree indicates he was transported by ship to Southampton after being wounded. This is echoed in this article

http://homepage.eircom.net/~mfarry47/sligowar.pdf

I don't have an active account for the Irish Times archive at the moment but there is a hit for Burnside in the 6th Nov 1915 issue which might possible reference him.

[droberts]

Thanks a lot, I'll look up the Irish times for whats there.

[GinaB]

Can anyone give me anymore information on how he died??? read another article and it said he was wounded whilist attempting to save the life of an officer. I have looked at his medal card he got victory, british and star. if he was wounded when trying to save someone surely he should have got a higher medal???

It say's in the e book below he had a impressive military funeral !!! Firing party !!!

He was buried by the commonwealth also.

Sorry, I am new to this but I am thinking he prob should have got another medal!! and he was my great grandfather !!!

[mhifle]

Hi,

His regimental number would have him enlisting 2 Sept 1914.

This picture is from the The Weekly Irish Times on Saturday, November 6, 1915. He died of wounds on board a Hospital Ship.

Regards Mark

[centurion]

The medals he got were campaign medals

Can anyone give me anymore information on how he died??? read another article and it said he was wounded whilist attempting to save the life of an officer. I have looked at his medal card he got victory, british and star. if he was wounded when trying to save someone surely he should have got a higher medal???

The medals he got were campaign medals. At the time, apart from the VC, it was not the normal practice to award posthumous medals for valour. Had he lived longer he could quite possibly been awarded a medal.

[GinaB]

Thank you so much for finding the picture and posting it. Wow !!!! amazing

[GinaB]

Hi guys, another question you may be able to help me with!!!! I am 95% certain that andrew burnside connaught rangers 1st battalion attested 3/1/1898 was robert burnside brother it say's in another thread mentioned born 1880, I think this is incorrect and born 1876.

i would be grateful for any help!!!

[Guest]

Here are the extracts from the 5th Connaught Rangers' War Diary for the relevant dates. I suspect he was the man wounded on 14th whilst doing fatigues. At Gallipoli, even out of the front line most of the area could still be shelled. There was very little respite. At the time the 5th Bn was operating in an area called Bauchop's Hill with working parties doing fatigues in Chailik Dere (pronounced derry - a dry river bed). When he was wounded the battalion was down to less than a third of its original strength due to casualties (battle casualties and sickness).

14th Sep 1915: In bivouac CSM P J DUNWORTH rejoined from hospital and took over duties of acting regimental Sgt Maj from CSM DUFFY. Effective strength 4 officers 325 ORs. One man wounded on fatigue.

15th Sep 1915: Bn in bivouac. Effective strength 4 Officers 328 ORs. One man slightly wounded on fatigue.

16th Sep 1915: Still in bivouac. Effective strength 5 officers 314 ORs no casualties. Capt B R COOPER rejoined from hospital and took over command of the Battalion.

Source: The National Archives WO 95/4296

Note:

CSM is Company Sgt Major

OR is shorhand for Other Rank (i.e. not an Officer)

Bn is shorthand for Battalion

MG

[GinaB]

Thanks so much martin G, do you have any information on Andrew Burnside Connaught rangers 1st Bn warrent officer class 2 reg no 6286 ?? Think he and robert where brother's, asstest 3/1/1898. I know he was a tailor like robert and came from sligo. He got a great war D.C.M group of 6 medals my only doubt is the date of birth i have 4 june 1876, don't have birth cert's yet so i just wondering any records ? Also would he have been in gallipoi when robert got injury ??? any mention of brothers ???

Thanks to everyone for helping me

[Guest noel burns]

Robert and Andrew Burnside were in fact brothers, my mother (Margaret "Peggy" Burnside) Robert's daughter often spoke of her uncle Andy, also a soldier with the Connaught Rangers.
As I remember her telling me, Robert was shot by a sniper and died on a hospital ship on the way back to England.

[Guest noel burns]

http://www.dnw.co.uk/graphics/imagemagick/medals_archive/DNWMedals_Photo1%20data_77127_w800h500.jpg' title="Lot 971, 30 Mar 11"> Category: GROUPS AND SINGLE DECORATIONS FOR GALLANTRY Estimate: £1200-£1500 Hammer Price: £1600 Description

A Great War D.C.M. group of six awarded to Warrant Officer Class 2 A. Burnside, Connaught Rangers

Distinguished Conduct Medal, G.V.R. (I-6286 C.Q.M. Sjt., 1/Conn. Rang.); Queen’s South Africa 1899-1902, 5 clasps, Cape Colony, Orange Free State, Transvaal, Tugela Heights, Relief of Ladysmith (6286 Pte., 1st Bn. The Connaught Rangers); King’s South Africa 1901-02, 2 clasps (6286 Corpl., 1st Bn. The Connaught Rangers) Q.S.A. and K.S.A. officially engraved in a slightly later style; 1914 Star, with copy slip-on clasp (6286 Sjt., 1/Conn. Rang.); British War and Victory Medals (6286 W.O. Cl. 2, Conn. Rang.) nearly very fine and better (6) £1200-1500

Footnote

D.C.M. London Gazette 29 August 1917. ‘For conspicuous gallantry throughout the operations. He has been in every action, with the exception of one. By his coolness and determination, either as platoon serjeant, or company serjeant Major, he has always set a fine example to those under him.’

Andrew Burnside was born in Sligo. A Tailor by occupation, he attested for the Connaught Rangers at Sligo on 3 January 1898, aged 18 years. He entered the France/Flanders theatre of war as a Serjeant in the 1st Battalion Connaught Rangers on 26 September 1914. He died 17 April 1941.

Only 60 D.C.M’s. (and two bars) awarded to the Regiment during the Great War.

Here's a bit more info. I found on Andrew Burnside, quite the soldier !

Robert Burnside's uniform, rifle, bayonet and medals were kept at our house in Sligo until after Robert's wife died in 1956, when my parents donated these items to the Sligo County Museum, I'm not sure if they are on view.

I will post any more info. I can find.

[archangel9]

[GinaB]

Hi all, thanks for the information I have not been on here in a while, I went to robert's grave last July 2013 and felt quite sad.He would have been my great grandfather. Noel Burns my father is Oliver Plunkett Burnside is your first cousin his father was William (billy), thanks very much, did not know his uniform was at Sligo museum. Had found out information on Andrew Burnside, did you know if he was married ?? also there was another brother William I think he went to England. If you have any further information on the family and could help me, I would be most grateful. Regards

[corisande]

Have a look at the trees on Ancestry

http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/13874148/person/8328455

And have a look at

http://www.sligotoday.ie/details.php?id=29287

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=184593

[GinaB]

Thanks Old sweats, I saw sligo today, which mentions the book Sligo Men in the Great war 1914-1918 by James McGuinns which Robert is mentioned in and hopefully Andrew two. Also I knew that Andrew was single at 31 but he may have married and had children after this. I only know that Andrew died 17 Apr 1941, do not know where but there is a plaque for him in Sligo cemetery along side where is mother is buried. I do not have a ancestry acccount. Thank You

Noel Burns, I am hoping you may be able to help me more with family tree, I have quite alot of info as I know robert parents names and some of grandparents too you might be able to fill in some blanks for me when you see this message, perhaps you could email me on georginaburnside@yahoo.co.uk Thanks

[Guest JoanB]

Hi, Robert Burnside was my Great Grandfather too. My Grandfather was Jack Burnside & my. Father is Robert Burnside. Andrew's name is on a plaque in Calry Church on The Mall in Sligo where I got married In 2012. Jack Burnside had five children, Joan, John, Robert, Pat & Eddie. Joan, John & my Dad Robert are still alive & well & living in Sligo & Surrey, England. Lovely to see other relatives here!

[GinaB]

100 Years to day Robert Died, god rest his soul

[Colleen Clancy]

On 15/12/2014 at 10:03, Guest JoanB said:

Hi, Robert Burnside was my Great Grandfather too. My Grandfather was Jack Burnside & my. Father is Robert Burnside. Andrew's name is on a plaque in Calry Church on The Mall in Sligo where I got married In 2012. Jack Burnside had five children, Joan, John, Robert, Pat & Eddie. Joan, John & my Dad Robert are still alive & well & living in Sligo & Surrey, England. Lovely to see other relatives here!

☘️💛

[Letitia Burnside]

On 14/12/2014 at 23:03, Guest JoanB said:

Hi, Robert Burnside was my Great Grandfather too. My Grandfather was Jack Burnside & my. Father is Robert Burnside. Andrew's name is on a plaque in Calry Church on The Mall in Sligo where I got married In 2012. Jack Burnside had five children, Joan, John, Robert, Pat & Eddie. Joan, John & my Dad Robert are still alive & well & living in Sligo & Surrey, England. Lovely to see other relatives here!

Hi Robert was my great grandfather, was in Sligo today visiting the war memorial, my grandfather Robert Burnside had 6 children , my dad was Edward Burnside.

I lived in Canada for a year were a relative Clancy tracked me down and we met up, but lost contact.

 

it’s my first time in Sligo and enjoyed it, we are from Glasgow .

 

thanks

 

letitia

[Michelle Young]

Welcome to the forum Letitia. Unfortunately, JoanB is no longer a member here, as denoted by the Guest prefix. We won’t hold an contact information for them. 

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, Letitia Burnside said:

Robert was my great grandfather, was in Sligo today visiting the war memorial, my grandfather Robert Burnside had 6 children , my dad was Edward Burnside.

Letitia,

Welcome to GWF.

His widow, Margaret, made a claim for a war pension for herself and for pension allowances for her children under articles 11 & 12 of the Royal Warrant.  There are Pension Index Cards at the Western Front Association/Fold3 [unfortunately a rather less commonly visited source of info]

So don't know if you have seen this, but it is likely to be of wider interest too particularly due to the extra annotations in red [bottom right].

Image thanks to WFA/Fold3.

This is probably the most informative card - Much is self expanatory but a little interpetation may perhaps add/be of further interest to you.

It's a pension index card in the soldier’s name and there was another briefer card in his widow’s name so they could be cross-referenced/accessed.  These lead to a ledger via the claim case references and then to an awards file. Unfortunately, the ledger is lost [probably destroyed] and the awards file probably deliberately destroyed once its use was passed [as was the common case]

Date of birth = 16.9.81 is his widow, Margaret's - necessary as age-related supplement would have normally been payable once she was 35-44 inc. [an extra 2/6 pw] - Such an age banding of pension is believed to address the less likely possibility of re-marriage with increasing age - we can see outcome this in the amended pension rate for her.

A total of 26/6 from 20.3.16 rising to 29/- pw [10/- rising to 12/6 pw for her and 5/-, 3/6. 2/-, 2/-, 2/-, 2/- pw allowances for the respective children]

Dates of birth for children = were necessary as their allowance(s) paid to their would normally cease once they had reached 16 and lost their entitlement - being expected to earn their own keep thereafter

SA = A portion of a soldier's pay which was matched by the government and sent to his dependants to make sure they were not left destitute while he was on active service.  SA were often more generous than pensions and children’s allowances because a wife had to maintain a home ready for her husband’s return whilst a widow did not have such a need and costs – after all, apparently, she could then cut back and down-size her home!  Typically, the no of SA on the card reflected the number of children [seen here]. Normal Separation Allowances for the widow and six children would be paid for c. six months until the pension rate was settled and this seems the case here.

50F = a form used to transfer from SA to pension & allowances

Noted for Novel = thought to mean requiring i.e. special treatment/calculation - this does seem likely given a number of prevailing factors and it is particularly interesting [and rare to see such] that his widow, Margaret, got training fees paid for her to train as a Midwife [having had six children herself she would seem to have some prior knowledge of the process] - I wonder if further is known about this apparent career of hers ??

There a few other pensions admin annotations but probably not now of much significance really.

I hope of value.

M

 

 

[corisande]

[Matlock1418]

On 17/06/2013 at 22:43, GinaB said:

do you have any information on Andrew Burnside Connaught rangers 1st Bn warrent officer class 2 reg no 6286 ??

Andrew BURNSIDE, 6286, Connaught Rangers

A very fine service record ... but he was only human.

He was discharged 22.4.19 and made a disabilty pension claim.

Image thanks to WFA/Fold3

We can see he also got a Service Pension = I'll ask @ss002d6252 to hopefully please explain the bit about ... Same Tymbol ...

The claim appears to be considered DEAD,18.7.24 [I am not aware of his circumstances by then - alive or dead??]

The associated pension ledger for case reference 13/MB/2177 [an Ireland, region 13, claim] shows he claimed for Gastritis and Defective teeth - both were considered aggravated by service

Here's the bit more interesting rear of that ledger page showing the degree of disability and quanta awarded

Image thanks to WFA/Fold3

25.10.21 Looks like the disabilty claim had a final pay off At expiry of C/A [current award] 15.11.21 [at 5/6 pw] for a further 7/6 pw. for 104 weeks.

M

Edited 31 December , 2022 by Matlock1418
typo

[ss002d6252]

It's 'same symbol'.

They sometimes refer to the reference number as a symbol.

Craig