Plumes and Knot (?)

[FROGSMILE]

Strewth ! They say you should be careul what you wish for ... I realise it is frustrating for the experts to have to work from a clip from a photo rather than the full photo itself, but it was the best I could do : the original is about A4 size, and the GWF machine had a hissy fit every time I tried to upload it as is. I think I have now managed to add another clip, of the second Officer in the photo, homing in on his collar ... But if anyone is still interested in pushing it further I would be happy to email a scan of the full thing : just drop me a line at danlyon@globalnet.co.uk . A couple of comments on what has gone before :-

A name and a date for the wedding would have made things too easy ! The family has absolutely no idea who it is, where or when. There is a very small photographer's imprint (that's a very small imprint, not a very small photographer) embossed in the corner, and it won't show up on any scan : "Clifton & Co, Bombay". Not sure that really helps in any reliable way : the photographer could have travelled to a distant wedding from Bombay, or the Officers could have travelled from a distant outpost to have the wedding in Bombay.

The collar badge really did look a perfect match for 2 Gurkhas, so I duly offered to donate the photo to the Gurka Museum but they have just replied to the effect that he is not one of theirs, although they haven't gone into any reasons why not. Again, it is a black and white photograph so probably dangerous to infer colours, but it looks to me like a classic red tunic, and on reflection I would have thought that a Gurkha Officer would have been wearing green rather than red.

So, subject to anyone's further comments on the new photo of the collar, I now think Frogsmile has got it : his 14 Sikhs image above is a perfect match for the badge on the helmet. (I wonder if Stoppage Drill's puggaree anxiety is a little off target : I thought 14 Sikhs were granted the right to wear red pagris ie turbans rather than red puggarees ie helmet bands, but their Officers would presumably have worn Wolseley helmets anyway)

You can read about Clifton & Co Photographers of Bombay here:

1. http://wiki.fibis.or...aphers_(Bombay)

2. http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/INDIA/2000-06/0960851268

There is no doubt from the even more clear photo of the collar that the regiment concerned is the Ferozepore Sikhs (14th Sikhs). The two badges are the GRI cypher with crown over and the PoW feathers stylised to that period.

Given the regiment's re-titling in 1922 (which involved new insignia), the photo dates to between 1918 and 1922.

[Guest]

It is most definitely not Gurkha Rifles (trust me on this I served with them). The Gurkha Rifles wore Rifle Green. In my view it is most definitely Sikhs as the plain quoit is typical of many Sikh regimental devices and 14th Sikhs in particular - I see most of these points have already been aired. 61st Pioneers would have had crossed axes.

The Army List May 1915 - Indian Army (Infantry) permitted to use the Plume of the Prince of Wales

14th King George's Own Ferozepore Sikhs "The Plume of the Prince of Wales - The Royal and Imperial Cypher"..... Uniform Scarlet, Facings Yellow. ..

61st King George's Own Pioneers - "The Plume of the Prince of Wales - The Royal and Imperial Cypher" ......Uniform: Scarlet, Facings White,

102nd King Edward's Own Grenadiers - "The Plume of the Prince of Wales - The Sphinx - The Royal and Imperial Cypher of King Edward VII".... Uniform: Scarlet, Facings White

130th King George's Own Baluchis (Jacob's Rifles) - "The Plume of the Prince of Wales - The Royal and Imperial Cypher" ......Uniform: Green (red serge Trousers), Facings Scarlet

1st King George's Own Gurkha Rifles (The Malaun Regiment) - "The Plume of the Prince of Wales - The Royal and Imperial Cypher"....Uniform Dark Green, Facings Scarlet

2nd King Edward's Own Gurkha Rifles (The Simoor Rifles) - "The Plume of the Prince of Wales - The Royal and Imperial Cypher of King Edward VII"....Uniform Dark Green, Facings Scarlet

Also

1st King George's Own Sappers & Miners - "The Plume of the Prince of Wales - The Royal and Imperial Cypher" ......Uniform: Scarlet, Facings Blue

Cavalry:

Note the 6th Cavalry, 11th Cavalry 18th Cavalry, 26th Cavalry, 39th Cavalry were also were permitted to use the device. (clearly though this is not a cavalry uniform)

MG

[Steven Broomfield]

Given the regiment's re-titling in 1922 (which involved new insignia), the photo dates to between 1918 and 1922.

Not necessarily so: as I mentioned in an earlier post, I have photos (thanks to Squirrel) of the 5th/14th Punjab still wearing 40th Pathan badges in Malaya in 1941.I suspect resistance to change was greater than we think. Not sure about medals, but do the medals worn (and the one with only thr riband) help date it better?

[FROGSMILE]

Not necessarily so: as I mentioned in an earlier post, I have photos (thanks to Squirrel) of the 5th/14th Punjab still wearing 40th Pathan badges in Malaya in 1941.I suspect resistance to change was greater than we think. Not sure about medals, but do the medals worn (and the one with only thr riband) help date it better?

I don't doubt you, especially with wartime exigencies, but what was worn in the field on working uniform and what was worn by the officers in full dress are entirely different matters, especially during peacetime.

It has long been the practice that upon a regimental merger the following protocol would be observed. Recently commissioned officers would be required to purchase the new uniforms, before they arrived in the unit. Officers with more than 3 years to serve had a period of grace (usually two years) in which to obtain the new uniform/insignia, and officers within 3 years of retirement were afforded so-called 'grandfather's rights' to retain their old uniform until departure, but as a minimum usually had to add the new regimental insignia. Even with these caveats there was considerable pressure brought to bear, at a time when officers still had private incomes, to obtain new items of uniform in order to promote regimental spirit and enbed the new uniform as soon as possible. Commanding officers saw it as a matter of honour and invariably used their adjutants as the party whip.

It is for the foregoing reasons that I made the date assessment that I did.

If it were not a wedding scene, then my guess would have been that the photo might relate to the momentous visit of the Prince of Wales, the future Edward VIII, who disembarked in Bombay in November 1921. As Prince of Wales it would have been natural for one of the regiments associated with him (through his father) to mark the event with some kind of full dress event.

Whatever the event was, I suspect that the missing medal relates to the relatively recent 1919-21 Afghanistan (North West Frontier) Campaign. The ribbon configuration seems to fit and it could even have been arranged for the Prince of Wales (who might perhaps have been the regiment's colonel-in-chief) to present the medal during his visit.

On 16 May 1919 British and Indian forces had launched an attack on 'Stonehenge Ridge', where an Afghan force of about 3,000 men had established themselves with a number of artillery pieces and machine guns. Under cover of a preliminary bombardment to soften up the Afghan defences, men from the Sikh units had launched the initial assault, however, they were forced to stop their attack when they ran out of ammunition at 08.00 hours, and although a resupply was effected at 10.30 hours, it was not until 14.00 hours that the attack was able to be recommenced. By this time the troops were exposed to the heat of the day; nevertheless, after another barrage was called down, the Sikhs attacked the Afghan line despite the heat and the attack was carried to the top of the ridge. Upon reaching the escarpment they found that the Afghans had left the battlefield, leaving most of their equipment, artillery and a number of standards. During the assault the British and Indian forces lost 22 killed and 157 wounded, while Afghan losses were estimated at around 200 killed and 400 wounded.

British and Indian infantry units that participated in the conflict received the battle honour "Afghanistan 1919". No other battle honours for individual engagements were issued. Additionally, unlike the first two Anglo-Afghan wars where individual campaign ribbons were issued for separate engagements, no campaign medal was struck for this conflict. Instead, participation in this conflict was recognised by a clasp to the India General Service Medal (1908–1935). Furthermore, as the reorganisation of the Indian Army was imminent, the decision was made to award the battle honour to the successor units of those involved in the war and so it was the 11th Sikhs, as successors of the Sikhs who fought at Stonehenge Ridge, that subsequently carried the honour forward.

[Guest]

A Captain in the 14th Sikhs in 1918-9122 with the MC and WWI trio would be one of a fairly small group of men, and probably relatively easy to trace in the Army List and London Gazette. Looks to me like a medal ceremony given his missing medal.

MG