Sleeve Insignia

[CSMMo]

This is a photo of my grandfather and his battery mates that was probably taken around the time of general mobilization (August 1914). It would help me date it if I knew whether the Imperial War Badges were issued before or after August 1914. I'm also curious about the various sleeve insignia and what duties they describe. The unit is the Bute (Mountain) Battery, RGA (TF). Thanks!

Mike Morrison

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

Imperial Service Pre 1914,to signify readiness to serve Overseas in time of War.

{L} in a wreath: Gun Layer

Crossed Flags : Signaller.

Cannon: above Sergeant's Chevrons,signifies Artillery Sergeant{A "Gun" was worn above stripes of Ranks above Lance Sergeant above any Trade Badge,as can be seen on the Signal Sergeant's Sleeve}

As you are no doubt aware The Bute Battery,RGA[MB] was a TF Battery.

[PhilB]

{A "Gun" was worn above stripes of Ranks above Lance Sergeant above any Trade Badge,as can be seen on the Signal Sergeant's Sleeve}

But, HB, the gun appears to be below the trade badge (crossed flags) on the sergeant`s arm? Phil B

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

{A "Gun" was worn above stripes of Ranks above Lance Sergeant above any Trade Badge,as can be seen on the Signal Sergeant's Sleeve}

But, HB, the gun appears to be below the trade badge (crossed flags) on the sergeant`s arm? Phil B

Somebody should tell him !!!!,Regs state "A Gun {Barrel facing forward} is worn 3/4" Above any Trade Badge;if Worn, or 3/4" above Points of the Chevron"

[Muerrisch]

Yes, but crossed flags worn upper right is AISigs badge and NOT a trade badge but an appointment badge. The Layer's L in wreath, also an appointment not a trade, worn similarly.

Now, regarding initial enquiry, I do not know when Imperial Service tablet [correct name] was withdrawn but I bet some were issued in 1914 before August, and fairly likely for a while after that. If you had one, and had gone to F&F, surely you would wear it with pride? Nice badge, highly desirable [not the obligation!].

My father insisted on wearing his RAFVR collar badges in RAF 1939 to 1945 to distinguish himself as a pre-war volunteer rather than a pressed man.

[CSMMo]

Thanks so much for the information. I knew I could count on you guys! Now... why does my grandfather (seated right, proudly wearing his Imperial Service Tablet) have his crossed flags on his lower sleeve and the sergeant have them below the cannon on his upper sleeve?

Mike Morrison

[PhilB]

Exactly what I was wondering, Mike! Phil B

[Muerrisch]

Normal place for signalling flags lower left BUT Assistant Instructors Signalling [usually one corporal and one sergeant in an infantry battalion] wore the flags as an appointment badge over right sleeve chevrons. Under these circumstances, no badge lower left. Possible to find a sgt with flags above sitting next to a sgt with just the basic qualification badge on lower left. Until c. 1906 the flags badge carried good extra money.

A Sgt Major AISigs [in a signalling school for example] wore his flags over his rank badge lower right sleeve.

[PhilB]

Thanks for that, LB. You mention Asst Instructors - who would the full Instructors be? Would they be officers? Phil B

[Muerrisch]

Yes, by some quaint and unlovely old army custom, Instructors per se were officers! The course for Sigs, musketry instructors for example were long and arduous: they became very good indeed. In exchange for the grand title, they were superb. The basic qualification for ENTRY to an officers' signalling school was to be able to transmit and receive by flag, Morse at 78 letters in two minutes, the letters being random and not forming words. Any officer found unable on day one of the course to repass this test WAS SENT BACK TO HIS UNIT AT HIS OWN EXPENSE! Message reading tests were not in English, but Latin, Greek, Welsh or Urdu, so officers could not guess a ord from context.

[CSMMo]

That's very interesting. After my grandfather was commissioned in 1915 (I still don't know if this was a direct commission or if he went to an Officer's School), he went to the Scottish Command School of Signalling and Telephony, 9th Class at Dalkeith (March and April 1916). I have a wonderful photograph taken by the Corn Exchange (so I've been told) of this huge class with EVERY name listed. I'd post it, but I can't get the file size small enough to get it on the forum. If anybody wants me to look up names of soldiers who attended this school, I'll be happy to.

Mike Morrison