alex815 Posted 7 November , 2012 Share Posted 7 November , 2012 I have enclosed a photo of my late Granfather Henry Snaith. We are unable to find any information about him as his records have been destroyed. As a starting point we are hoping someone will be able to recognise his regiment and rank from his cap badge and uniform. We do know he enlisted in Yorkshire so it may be a Yorkshire Regiment. Any help would be much appreiciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 7 November , 2012 Share Posted 7 November , 2012 Hi Alex, The regiment is Royal Fusiliers and his rank is Private. I think he has a wound stripe on his left forearm and also 4 'overseas service' chevrons on his right forearm, showing that he had served overseas from 1915-1918 inclusive--but I am not absolutely certain!! They could be 'good service' chevrons? I expect that I will be corrected shortly!! Hope this helps. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 7 November , 2012 Share Posted 7 November , 2012 Interesting, too, that he has collar dogs - not common for an o.r. Also he seems not to have a Good Conduct badge on his left sleeve, which one would expect given the length of service he must have had. Bad boy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin RussT Posted 7 November , 2012 Admin Share Posted 7 November , 2012 There is MIC for a Henry Snaith: 4173 Yorkshire Rgt, 407386 Labour Corps, G/126042 Royal Fusiliers. No date of entry into theatre on MIC, so after Dec 1915? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex815 Posted 8 November , 2012 Author Share Posted 8 November , 2012 Interesting, too, that he has collar dogs - not common for an o.r. Also he seems not to have a Good Conduct badge on his left sleeve, which one would expect given the length of service he must have had. Bad boy? Hi Steven, Thank you for your reply. I am new to all this and am unable to find out anything about collar dogs. I assume they are the pointy looking buttons on his collar, also what is an o.r. ? Regards, Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex815 Posted 8 November , 2012 Author Share Posted 8 November , 2012 Hi Alex, The regiment is Royal Fusiliers and his rank is Private. I think he has a wound stripe on his left forearm and also 4 'overseas service' chevrons on his right forearm, showing that he had served overseas from 1915-1918 inclusive--but I am not absolutely certain!! They could be 'good service' chevrons? I expect that I will be corrected shortly!! Hope this helps. Robert Thank you for your reply. I have since looked up cap badges for the Royal Fusiliers and are covinced you are right. Do you know if you recieve a chveron for each year or is it for every trip overseas ? Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Tom Posted 8 November , 2012 Share Posted 8 November , 2012 Wellcome to the forum, OR or o.r. means 'other rank' The army consists of officers, non commissioned officers and other ranks. Sometime referred to, in a different context as 'rank and file' that is from the positions of soldiers on parade. In WW1 formed up in 4 lines one behind the other, the long lines were 'ranks' and the short lines (of 4) were files. Collar dogs are indeed badges, usually somewhat simplified version of the cap badge, worn or the collars. Old Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 8 November , 2012 Share Posted 8 November , 2012 Wellcome to the forum, OR or o.r. means 'other rank' The army consists of officers, non commissioned officers and other ranks. Sometime referred to, in a different context as 'rank and file' that is from the positions of soldiers on parade. In WW1 formed up in 4 lines one behind the other, the long lines were 'ranks' and the short lines (of 4) were files. Collar dogs are indeed badges, usually somewhat simplified version of the cap badge, worn or the collars. Old Tom I know that you mean well Old Tom, but it is not quite right and I hope you will not take offence at my correcting some minor, but important points, as this is an area that can be rife for confusion. First, all ranks below officers are 'other ranks', including warrant officers and sergeants. Non-commissioned officers are therefore very much a part of the other ranks grouping, albeit at the more senior end. Second, 'rank and file' incorporates full corporals and below. All ranks above full corporal traditionally fall in outside the 4 or (later) 3 ranks and are thus not a part of the rank and file. As an aside, the expression 'opposite number' also comes from rank and file and relates to each soldier having a cover man (aka 'file man') and that they were alternatively numbered in odd and even sequence, so that each man had his opposite number, later shortened to 'oppo' and meaning friend. The correct break downs for WW1 were as follows: 1. General Officers. 2. Field Officers. 3. Company (or Squadron) Officers. 4. Warrant Officers. 5. Staff Sergeants (as a grouping, not rank). 6. Sergeants. 7. Rank and File. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 8 November , 2012 Share Posted 8 November , 2012 Thank you for your reply. I have since looked up cap badges for the Royal Fusiliers and are covinced you are right. Do you know if you recieve a chveron for each year or is it for every trip overseas ? Alex Hi Alex, Each chevron is given for 1 years service overseas, although I believe that leave for wounds or normal leave would not detract from this. The chevron for 1914 was red and those for subsequent years were blue. The maximum which one man could have would be five, one red and four blue. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief_Chum Posted 8 November , 2012 Share Posted 8 November , 2012 "Interesting, too, that he has collar dogs - not common for an o.r." The 11th (Service) Battalion wore the grenades as collar badges instead of wearing them above the "RF" shoulder titles. I don't know if they were the only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 9 November , 2012 Share Posted 9 November , 2012 A man became eligible for an Overseas chevron on arrival overseas and then each year thereafter. Short periods of leave or recuperation from wounds (I believe less than a month) would not "stop the clock" but longer periods did. Just a thought but I am wondering if the RF service was post-war, perhaps in the North Russia force in 1919. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 9 November , 2012 Share Posted 9 November , 2012 That wound stripe looks like an addition on the photograph rather than an actual metal badge present when the photograph was taken. I am not disputing entitlement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex815 Posted 9 November , 2012 Author Share Posted 9 November , 2012 "Interesting, too, that he has collar dogs - not common for an o.r." The 11th (Service) Battalion wore the grenades as collar badges instead of wearing them above the "RF" shoulder titles. I don't know if they were the only one. Are the collar dogs those buttons just below the collar or the ones below. Also what is the significance of them, nobody has answered that question ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveE Posted 10 November , 2012 Share Posted 10 November , 2012 There is MIC for a Henry Snaith: 4173 Yorkshire Rgt, 407386 Labour Corps, G/126042 Royal Fusiliers. No date of entry into theatre on MIC, so after Dec 1915? The G/126042 Royal Fusiliers number suggests 43rd or 44th (Garrison) Battalion which were formed in France in 1918. These battalions were composed of troops who had been medically downgraded as unfit for front line duty which works well with Henry's transfer from the Labour Corps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex815 Posted 10 November , 2012 Author Share Posted 10 November , 2012 The G/126042 Royal Fusiliers number suggests 43rd or 44th (Garrison) Battalion which were formed in France in 1918. These battalions were composed of troops who had been medically downgraded as unfit for front line duty which works well with Henry's transfer from the Labour Corps. Thank you for the reply. If Henry's records were destroyed during the blitz do you know if the Royal Fusiliers would have kept a separate record ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin spof Posted 10 November , 2012 Admin Share Posted 10 November , 2012 Thank you for the reply. If Henry's records were destroyed during the blitz do you know if the Royal Fusiliers would have kept a separate record ? I'm afraid not. His Labour Corps number was assigned between October 1917 and January 1918 but probably closer to October. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex815 Posted 10 November , 2012 Author Share Posted 10 November , 2012 I'm afraid not. His Labour Corps number was assigned between October 1917 and January 1918 but probably closer to October. Thank you for the reply. Qurious to know, how did you sourse that information ?Regards, Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin spof Posted 11 November , 2012 Admin Share Posted 11 November , 2012 From the book No Labour No Battle by John Starling and Ivor Lee (a Forum member) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David B Posted 11 November , 2012 Share Posted 11 November , 2012 I may be wrong (usually) but those overseas chevrons look to me to be the same colour. Is it possible to get four starting with 1916 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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