Vickers proficiency sleave badge.... Calling GRUMPY!

[findabetterole]

I have a queary about the Vickers Proficiency Sleave Badge.

Was it worn by the either 1). The full crew of x6, 2). The gun team, or 3). The gunner only?

Seph.

[squirrel]

According to that fine publication "British Army Proficiency Badges" by Edwards & Langley, MG in wreath was awarded to 1st Class Machine Gunners (Regular Army) later Machine Gun Marksman first issued on the basis of 14 per regiment of cavalry or battalion of infantry it was later awarded to all proficient machine gunners in MGC squadrons and companies equipped with the Vickers machine gun.

The chances are that some gun teams might have more than one soldier so qualified, some one, and possibly some none at all.

I am sure that Grumpy will elaborate further when he see this.

[Staffsyeoman]

Indeed, Mr Grumpy is one of the authors. Later awarded to all proficient machine gunners in MGC squadrons and companies equipped with the Vickers machine gun. The answer. Everyone in a team passed as proficient. (You wouldn't have got out of the MGCTC if you weren't).

[Chief_Chum]

Seaton-Hutchinson's profusely illustrated History of the 33rd Battalion MGC clearly shows that, in 1917/18, hardly anyone wore proficiency badges at all in his unit.

[findabetterole]

Indeed, Mr Grumpy is one of the authors. Later awarded to all proficient machine gunners in MGC squadrons and companies equipped with the Vickers machine gun. The answer. Everyone in a team passed as proficient. (You wouldn't have got out of the MGCTC if you weren't).

Thank you very much chaps.

'Chief_Chum'.... your comment brings in a bit of a contradiction on the subject. Do you think the reason for the stated observation, was due to expence, or a unit just not seing a need? Also, would this have been the norm for the latter part of the conflict?

[FROGSMILE]

Seaton-Hutchinson's profusely illustrated History of the 33rd Battalion MGC clearly shows that, in 1917/18, hardly anyone wore proficiency badges at all in his unit.

That does not surprise me. As so many of the badges that the soldiers opted to wear were in giding metal (worsted were issued) and individually purchased, I imagine that in many units the badges were worn only when out of the line. The advantage of the GM badges is that apart from being shiny and thus distinctive, they could easily be transfered from one jacket to another, which the stitched on worsted were not. There was also the concern that a captured soldier might not wish to advertise to his captors that he was a fully qualified machine gunner who moments before had been busily engaged in mowing down their comrades.

[findabetterole]

There was also the concern that a captured soldier might not wish to advertise to his captors that he was a fully qualified machine gunner who moments before had been busily engaged in mowing down their comrades.

You've raised a very interesting point there 'FROGSMILE', and one worth considering. Back to the original question... would I be correct in stating that all members of the HMG team would wear (in an ideal world) the Sleave Proficiancy Badge?

[FROGSMILE]

You've raised a very interesting point there 'FROGSMILE', and one worth considering. Back to the original question... would I be correct in stating that all members of the HMG team would wear (in an ideal world) the Sleave Proficiancy Badge?

Out of the line - yes. The MGC (all branches) were very proud of their corps, their important part in the ORBAT and the individual skills that they had to acquire and be tested upon. They were just as proud of their MG badges as an infantryman of his marksman's badge, probably even more so as it was a marker of their corps, given that they had to pass the badge test to be 'qualified'.

[findabetterole]

Excellent... Thank You!

[Wexflyer]

.... There was also the concern that a captured soldier might not wish to advertise to his captors that he was a fully qualified machine gunner who moments before had been busily engaged in mowing down their comrades.

Surely their cap badge was more than sufficient to give away that fact?

[FROGSMILE]

Surely their cap badge was more than sufficient to give away that fact?

They usually went into action with steel helmets and cap comforters. Caps with badges could be left behind at the company lines, or the badge removed and left. I am not suggesting that all MGC did this, but I understand that during the Kaiserschlact of 1918 in particular, there was concern over machine gunners who were captured being in some instances shot out of hand.

[Staffsyeoman]

It was even worse for German machine gunners as their badge was attached by flanges to a metal plate through the uniform and was even harder to remove.