RobL Posted 1 November , 2012 Share Posted 1 November , 2012 Recently acquired a 6 pounder tank shell, complete with fuse. I'm interested to know more about them aside from them going in the breech then bang - with the fuse mounted at the rear, inside the shell, how did it work? Impact? Also interested to know more about them in general - were there any differences between those used on the long 6 pounders in Mk I and Mk II Tanks and the shorter version, also what other types of shell apart from high explosive were there? Believe grape shot was used, what did this look like as part of the shell before firing? I've attached an image of a complete shell in the Tank Museum - if it follows standard shell marking then the red band means it's filled - does white denote high explosive? Thanks, Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 1 November , 2012 Share Posted 1 November , 2012 Grape not used but a form of canister was. This consisted of iron or steel balls threaded on steel wire inside a canister which disintegrated after leaving the muzzle leaving a whirling spread of balls and wire. Used against infantry at close quarters and also against AT guns. There is an account by the commander of an American Mk V* (of the 301st) in which 6 pounder HE shells were first used to take out German machine gun positions and him then ordering canister to be used against retreating German infantry and later 77mm 'sacrifice' guns left to deal with the tanks. I would be interested to know the range of the canister. The HE appears to have been contact (or graze) fused. Again I would be interested in how far from the tank the shell travelled before the warhead became live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 2 November , 2012 Share Posted 2 November , 2012 In WWI British case shot was not linked by wire and "Cannister" does not appear in the vocabulary. Case shot was packed in sand or clay and was effective to about 300 yards (See 1915 Treatise on Ammunition). The white ring indicates a steel (as opposed to iron) shell. The 6 Pr. used the Fuze, Percussion, Base, Hotchkiss Mark III or iV. The action of the fuze was that when fired a lead filled pellet set back from the shock of discharge and exposed the tip of a steel needle. On impact, the pellet and needle move forward overcoming a creep spring and the needle strikes a detonator, sending the flash into the main charge. The shell is thus safe to handle as the needle cannot contact the detonator prior to firing, but is live from the moment of discharge so cannot be considered to be bore safe. Most other types of base fuze(Nos 11, 12, 15 and 16) had a lateral spring loaded detente that prevented the striker moving until the shell had acquired sufficien spin when fired for the centrifugal forces to move the detente away from the path of the striker.. Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calibre792x57.y Posted 2 November , 2012 Share Posted 2 November , 2012 Strictly the Hotchkiss 6 pdr shells were not H.E. but Common Shell; with a four-ounce black powder charge. If you are trying to fit or remove the Hotchkiss fuze don't forget it has a L.H. thread! The red ring is the 'Filled' ring indicating some sort of explosive within, but not necessarily the main component. There were two types of 6 pdr Hotchkiss in use by the R.N. The pre-War models were built up from tubes shrunk on, but in 1915 guns were made from solid bar. This caused a reduction in the cordite charge, and meant two different types of ammunition were in service. In 1917 the latter guns were re-built to enable them to use the full cordite charge of the standard ammunition. The tank gun was a 23 calibre barrelled weapon with single tube construction; the 6pdr 6 cwt Mk I. but also in January 1917 the Mark 2 entered service and this was a built-up gun. The 40 calibre barrelled 6 Pdrs used in the Marks 1 Tank were supplied by the Navy. I have seen the case shot but I cannot now remember whether it was in the Tank Museum or the IWM. - SW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Lees Posted 2 November , 2012 Share Posted 2 November , 2012 Here's one I found in my back garden - where it had presumably been discarded in 1916. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobL Posted 2 November , 2012 Author Share Posted 2 November , 2012 Wow, nice find! I'm on the look out for just a head to complete another brass shell case I have if anyone has one. Regarding the iron/steel shells, how would I tell which mine is and if it should have the white stripe or not? Many thanks for all help so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobL Posted 2 November , 2012 Author Share Posted 2 November , 2012 Tried to send a PM but it says you can't receive any new messages, presume your inbox is full? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 2 November , 2012 Share Posted 2 November , 2012 Wow, nice find! I'm on the look out for just a head to complete another brass shell case I have if anyone has one. Regarding the iron/steel shells, how would I tell which mine is and if it should have the white stripe or not? Many thanks for all help so far Steel shell should be stamped either "CS" for cast steel, "BS" for bored steel or "FS" for forged steel. Sorry to be a pain, but can we use the correct terminology of "shell" or "projectile" and not the awful "head" for the bit that goes downrange! Cheers TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Lees Posted 2 November , 2012 Share Posted 2 November , 2012 I'm on the look out for just a head to complete another brass shell case I have if anyone has one. If you don't find one I could give a good home to the brass shell case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calibre792x57.y Posted 2 November , 2012 Share Posted 2 November , 2012 Ken - Do you reside in the Aveluy area? I only ask because in years gone by I have found a couple of 6 Pdr shells in the wood (no case) with the driving band intact. i.e. not engraved. These I think were probably remainders of the Summer of 1918 rather than 1916. - SW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobL Posted 6 November , 2012 Author Share Posted 6 November , 2012 Just a bump up regarding the 6 pounder - does anyone have images or dimensions (or both!) of how the shells were transported? I presume they were in some sort of wooden box for transportation to the front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodB Posted 4 March , 2014 Share Posted 4 March , 2014 Hogg & Thurston state that tanks fired HE i.e. Lyddite, TNT or Amatol. Of course they're not infallible. But this makes sense as they were not intended to pierce armour but rather to blow up small defence works and artillery - lateral explosive force was needed.. The old Common and Steel naval shells had small powder fillings that did little more than break up the shell - the lethality would still be in a forward direction. At the start of the war a nose-fuzed Lyddite 3-pounder round was available so presumably producing a 6-pounder version would have been straightforward. Rob - can you post a picture of your shell and why you believe it's a tank shell ? thanks Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodB Posted 4 March , 2014 Share Posted 4 March , 2014 I found a photo of a dud tank gun shell from the Australian War Memorial so it has high credibility. Looks externally similar to the Steel shell, but note the releatively thin wall and large space for explosive. Or am I imagining a difference ? Information page : http://www.awm.gov.au/collection/RELAWM00547/?image=8 Compare with the Naval "Steel shell" : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Haselgrove Posted 4 March , 2014 Share Posted 4 March , 2014 Attached is a photo of the 6pdr. in my collection together with a 2pdr. for comparison. There is also a photo of the 2pdr with the Hotchkiss Mk. IV fuze removed. That fuze would also have been used in the 6pdr. The 6pdr shell is marked "SOUVENIR DE VISITE USINES PELABON RICHMOND. 1916". I am sure I am getting off subject here but, very briefly, that factory(s) is an interesting story. In the early months of the war many Belgians escaped from Belgium and were welcomed in the U.K. Charles Pelabon quickly found premises in Richmond and set up a factory manufacturing shells. By May 1915 he was able to deliver the first 10,000 shells. Second, third, fourth and fifth factories were soon added to form a large complex near the Thames. The enterprise was not without conflict with the local population but made a large contribution to the war effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johntaylor Posted 15 March , 2014 Share Posted 15 March , 2014 Hi, can anyone tell me how many iron or steel balls were packed into each round of 6-pdr case shot as used in tanks? Many thanks, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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