Warrant Officer's Single Crown Insignia - What Rank & Date?

[Lyndale]

REPEAT OF EARLIER POST - PHOTOGRAPH NOW ATTACHED!

Dear Listeners,

Attached is an unidentified Warrant Officer of the Queens Own Dorsetshire Yeomanry (TF) displaying single crown insignia, which I understand denoted a different rank title and status depending on if the photo was taken pre WW1, during WW1 or post WW1.

I'm very keen to date when this photograph was taken? Other clues are the unusual dark band around his peaked cap, leather gaiters with spurs, Regimental Orders board behind him and no medal ribbons for such a mature gentleman, who I estimate to be aged between 45 and 55. Any help to date when and where this was taken would be very appreciated. Posted by Lyndale.

Dorset Yeomanry - unidentified Warrant Officer.pdf

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Lyndale,

I am not sure this information on the ' single crown ' arm insignia helps date the photograph, however, I shall provide it just in case it helps you.

J. Bodsworth's book on WW1 Uniforms, lists Warrant Officers arm rank badges as follows :-

" In August 1914, Other Ranks were divided into Warrant Officers, Non-Commissioned Officers and Privates. Rank badges were worn on both arms, NCOs on their upper arms and Warrant Officers on their lower arms. "

Shown in the rank table, a single ' Crown ' arm badge was worn by :-

A Farrier Corporal-Major

Sub-Conductor, AOC

Other Warrant Officers.

The books further states that in January 1915, Warrant Officers were divided into Class I and Class II. Certain NCOs were also upgraded to Warrant Officer Class II ( Army Order 70, issued February 1915 ).

Shown in the rank table, a single ' Crown ' arm badge was worn by :-

Warrant Officer, Class II

Schoolmaster ( When not WO I )

Garrison Quartermaster-Serjeant

Quartermaster-Corporal-Major

Regimental Quartermaster-Serjeant

Squadron Corporal-Major

Squadron Serjeant-Major

Battery Serjeant-Major

Troop Serjeant-major

Company Serjeant-Major

In June 1918, certain oversights from the original categorising od Warrant Officers, together with the inclusion of a few other NCOs were added to those of Warrant Officer Class II ( Army Order 194, issued July 1918 ).

Shown in the rank table, a single ' Crown ' arm badge was worn by :-

Squadron Corporal-Major

Squadron, Battery, Troop of Company Serjeant-Major

Regards,

LF

[Muerrisch]

I believe he is the Sergeant-Major ["RSM"] ...... the crown denoted this until mid-1915. His whole style of dress is "officer", a privilege jealously guarded by RSMs. The lower class, Class II, inherited the crown, and the upper class, I, took the Royal Arms as the badge.

Bodsworth's occasionally flawed book is nowhere more flawed than in regard to badges, rank and otherwise. It may well be excellent in areas that I have less knowledge of, but the "Badges" are woeful. There are reviews on this Forum.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

I believe he is the Sergeant-Major ["RSM"] ...... the crown denoted this until mid-1915. His whole style of dress is "officer", a privilege jealously guarded by RSMs. The lower class, Class II, inherited the crown, and the upper class, I, took the Royal Arms as the badge.

Bodsworth's occasionally flawed book is nowhere more flawed than in regard to badges, rank and otherwise. It may well be excellent in areas that I have less knowledge of, but the "Badges" are woeful. There are reviews on this Forum.

Grumpy,

I am no expert on badges, so I ' give way ' to your far superior knowledge on the subject.

Regards,

LF

[Muerrisch]

Grumpy,

I am no expert on badges, so I ' give way ' to your far superior knowledge on the subject.

Regards,

LF

Worry not, but I do get a little narked by book authors who do not do their homework ................ actually it is the publisher's blurb that usually raises expectations with words like "definitive".

The definitive book on WO and NCO Rank by Dawnay is, I fear, a collector's item, well worth pursuing. It was a JSAHR Special. Took me 30 years to find an original.

here is one: http://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=7977859840&searchurl=an%3Ddawnay%26bt.x%3D59%26bt.y%3D7%26sts%3Dt%26tn%3Drank

All you need is £60 and patience for the post from Oz.

[Chief_Chum]

"The definitive book on WO and NCO Rank by Dawnay is, I fear, a collector's item, well worth pursuing. It was a JSAHR Special. Took me 30 years to find an original."

I thought the same thing Grump. I had been looking for N.P.Dawnay's JSAHR special numbers, and a few other issues of the JSAHR, for many years. Then, a few months ago, I had a bright idea and looked on the Society's website.

There is a section on publications and it turned out that they offer a service providing photocopies of the originals but they also have a large stock of original items too; many returned to them by former members or their families. Of the six publications I was looking for I managed to buy five originals from them, plus one bound photocopy publication and the complete index, 1922-the present.

The prices were shown on their website but, from memory, they were very reasonable.

Taff