Woven Shoulder Cords

[Guest Chip Minx]

I have seen period pictures of British soldiers wearing a plaited woolen cord, looped, at shoulder seam of their uniforms. Could someone tell me what the purpose was of these cords? I have a red one and I am thinking that I once heard that there were other colours as well (white for instance). Were these worn at the front or solely a dress item? Any information would be most appreciated.

Chip

[Joe Sweeney]

Chip,

Are you asking about Lanyards?

Prior to WWI Clasp knives with lanyards were general issue to just about every mounted soldier. Specifically this included the Household Cavalry, Cavalry of the Line, MMP, RHA, RFA, RGA, RE, ASC, AVC, RFC, and AOC.

In 1901 a pattern of lanyard was approved that actually included a series of different styles of cording--all were white or natural flax.

These are commonly seen being worn around the shoulder with knife in a breast pocket. How worn was up to the Corps standing orders or what ever document prescribed wear of knife and lanyard. For ASC it was prescribed in ASC Training Part 1 app. II which presecribed that the knife and lanyard be worn for No. 1 and No. 2 Dress (Full and Service Dress) for ASC Horse Transport personnel.

White lanyards seem to be a perceived as a sole tradition of the Royal Artillery but in WWI was not.

After the outbreak of war issue of Clasp knives became pretty much universal and issue of lanyards haphazard. In addition, to the white lanyards issued to Mounted men there were two other kinds--pistols and whistles which were commonly seen with knives. No red lanyards that I'm aware of until after WWI?

However, I do seem to recall that someone stated that the Green Howards wore a Green lanyard which would have been a regimental distinction procured outside of WO channels.

Joe Sweeney

[N.S.Regt.]

Chip

After reading what Joe has said I agree that it may be a laynard. I have seen the lanyards in a large number of early photos but rarely in later years the 106th Battalion Picture book has hundreds of men wearing them. I do have a example from the 106th Battalion which is a light green or Khaki and it is like the one shown in the picture below which was taken about 1915.

Best Regards

N.S.Regt.

[Guest Chip Minx]

Joe,

Yes, lanyard. Wrong terminology on my part. I put this request in out of memory, which apparently is pretty poor. Since getting your response, I have gone to the cedar chest and pulled out my British tunic. A picture of the lanyard is attached. I had forgotten that it had a whistle on it. The maker of the whistle is "SONDI Co" and says "Made in India". The cord itself actually appears to be cotton.

Now that you have distilled my original question, perhaps you can also tell me about the issue knives that went with the lanyards you mention. Do you have a picture?

Thanks,

Chip

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

The 9th Bn Tank Corps wore a Green & Red Lanyard in Honour of the Battalion's award of the Croix de Guerre,For the TC gallantry @ the Battle of Souvilliers{Moreuil}on 23 July 1918.; in conjunction with a Brass Sleeve Badge of the 3rd French Divn's Badge.{A Bomb with the legend;"Qui S'y Frotte S'y Brule"~"Whoever Rubs Me Is Burned".The Same Lanyard in The Ribbon Colours of the Croix de Guerre is worn by the 6th Bn;The Black Watch{RH} for the award to the Battalion of the C de G for the Battles around Chambrecy between 20th & 30th July 1918.The 128 {Wessex} F.A.RAMC;TA wore a similar Lanyard to commemorate the actions of its Forebear unit:24th F.A.RAMC

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[Koots]

Hi Chip

I thought I'd share a picture of my grandad's lanyard. He was a Corporal in the 1st CMR. and was wounded by a bullet that tore through his lanyard. He lay wounded overnight and was brought in the next day. He wrote home to say he had given up smoking, yup....thats him with the smoke.

Best regards

HQ7

[Guest Chip Minx]

HQ7,

Thanks for the post. It's great that you have that lanyard. I'm surprised that it made it back. It does appear to be cotton as well. Is the color green or drab?

Chip

[Koots]

Hi Chip

It has two colours of green cotton and a third which appears yellow. But on close inspection is actually a greenish yellow with brown thread also mixed in.

Best regards

HQ7

[Koots]

Hi Chip

Heres another picture.

HQ7

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

Tanks of 9th Bn.bearing the 3rd French Dvn Emblem below Number

[Joe Sweeney]

Chip,

Attached is a photo showing two jackets with clasp knife lanyards still attached.

Top one is to Pte. James Ross 232 MGC Coy. His is a one a variety of lanyards sealed in 1901 and actually meant as a lanyard for the knife--These were meant for mounted soldiers pre-War.

Thje bottom jacket is to Pte. (LCorp.) R. A Morgan 9th RB. His jacket has what I believe is the whistle lanyard.

I actually have all the manufacturing specifications for the Clasp knifes and pattern changes through the war. I will send.

Your red one is? can't find anything official in the way of WO procuring those things.

My first gut feel would be post-war--There was an explosion in colored lanyards after the war.

You said tunic? was it attached to a tunic?

I believe the IWM has a simplified Jacket with an odd lanyard.

Joe Sweeney

[Guest Chip Minx]

Joe,

Thanks for the additional information. There is no association between the tunic and the lanyard. The tunic is an unissued example with a 1917 dated paper tag still in it. The lanyard did not come with it.

The knife lanyard you show looks like it could have been a pistol lanyard in an earlier life.

Regarding the clasp knives, a picture of a common example would be nice. Without seeing it, I am assuming that this is the pocket knife with the checkered side panels and the spike/awl as well as a knife blade. Or was this the navy pattern?

Chip

[Joe Sweeney]

Chip,

The khaki lanyard is the pistol lanyard--mind is off today.

Clasp Knife pattern 6353/1905 with manufacturing specs no. 429a approved 1 Sept 1905:

“ 3. The blade and Tin Opener to be made of best cast steel, free from flaws, properly hardened and tempered, and to be as thin and as well ground as the Standard Pattern; the edge of the Blade to be wetted on an oilstone; to be 3 ½ inches long from “kick” point, to be 11/16 inch wide; the Bolster to be ½ inch long, to be solid, and made from the best iron; the “Springs” to be made of best spring steel, properly hardened and tempered. The Marline Spike to be made of cast steel, properly hardened and tempered. Length of Marline Spike when shut to be within 1/8 inch shorter than Spring; and the point, when shut, to be fitted close on the spring to prevent catching in the pocket.

4. The Length of the Handle to be 4 7/8 inches; the Scales to be checkered black horn 4 3/8 inches long Bolster ½ inch; to be riveted to plates with two iron rivets; the Shackle to be made of copper wire, No. 11 gauge, same size and shape as that of the Standard Pattern, and riveted with brass wire. The Blade, Tin Opener, and Marline Spike to be firmly riveted in, and to bear makers name on tangs.”

During the war alternate patterns were approved that touched on handle material and with or with out Marline spike.

The attached photo is a 1917 dated example of a type adopted with Pattern 9402/1917, 23 April 1917, “Knives, Clasp with Tin Opener and Marline Spike with Fibre Scales”. Dimensionally identical to the specification of 1905 but the handles made of pressed fibre (Asbestos) dated and broadarrowed. There is debate on whether this knife style was WWI or WWII. R. Flook "British Commonwealth Military knives" puts it squarely in the WWII category, yet the example he shows is marked by the service number (527401) belonging to Leonard J Auburn of the Labour Corps--14/18. The pattern conforms to that adopted in April 1917.

All updates in pattern were to adhere to the 1905 dimensions save handle material and sometimes without marline spike.

The lanyard on the knife was added by me at some point in time and for reasons I can't remember.

Could knives of other dimensions have been issued--of course, but unless it had iron clad provenance I would not consider it a WWI issue knife.

Joe Sweeney

[Guest Chip Minx]

Joe,

Thanks again. Just to clarify, where were these normally dated? Also, was this type of knife manufactured for WWII?

[Joe Sweeney]

Chip,

The scales were branded with broad arrow and date. I have several so marked. Not being Acceptance stamped would not bother me if dimensionally the same and soldier marked. They were supposed to be marked with Reg't or Corps and number.

Not really sure how long these knives were manufactured. I haven't done the post WWI search yet.

Joe Sweeney

[GrandsonMichael]

Hi guys,

I was wondering for some time what 'chip' my grandfather was wearing on his shoulder. If I understand the discussion properly he too is wearing a lanyard?

Cheers,

Michael

[GrandsonMichael]

Floods...

The photo you should have been able to see was flooded I think, at least I got a floodcontrol message.

Here goes once again:

[Guest Chip Minx]

GrandsonMichael,

As Joe says, there was more than one type of these lanyards. I would say that your grandfather was wearing one, though it is narrow and not like the one that I have.

Chip