echester Posted 5 October , 2012 Share Posted 5 October , 2012 Hi I am trying to identify my great great grandfathers uniform which he wore when leaving to go to war. He was in his late thirties when he signed up in London at the outset of the war and due to his name (Charles WIlliam Smith) we are finding it hard to find him in the records. We know he died and beleive this was in France right at the start of the war. If we know the regiment he was in from the the picture we may be able to trace him. Any help would be gratefully received. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 5 October , 2012 Share Posted 5 October , 2012 I'd say it's a pre-war photo, so I suspect he had earlier service. I can't see anything to identify a regiment there, I'm afraid. Can the picture be enlarged at all? A close-up of head and shoulders might (operative word - "might") reveal some detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinBattle Posted 5 October , 2012 Share Posted 5 October , 2012 No idea as to uniform, but he looks to be part of a cavalry unit, not infantry. Can't see any rank clues on sleeve or collar, but seems to have a sword belt, again indicating a mounted unit. From date of death there are these early Charles Smiths:- Name: SMITH, CHARLES. Rank: Private Service No: L/3638. Date of Death: 29/08/1914. Age: 22 Regiment/Service: 16th (The Queen's) Lancers. "D" Sqdn. Grave Reference: Near South corner. Cemetery: FLAVY-LE-MARTEL COMMUNAL CEMETERY Additional Information: Son of William Henry and Agnes Mary Smith, of 44, Melbourne Grove, East Dulwich, London. Born at Camberwell, London. (a mounted unit, but he's 22 not late thirties... Name: SMITH, CHARLES. Rank: Private Service No: 5461. Date of Death: 13/05/1915 Regiment/Service: 14th (King's) Hussars Panel Reference: Panel 5. Memorial: YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL No age given, so possibly... and Name: SMITH, CHARLES WILLIAM. Rank: Private Service No: 9399. Date of Death: 13/05/1915 Regiment/Service: East Lancashire Regiment. 1st Bn. Panel Reference: Panel 34. Memorial: YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL He's the first Charles William, but Infantry so unlikely.... Alternatively.... Have you made a mistake over his Christian Names? Could this in fact be who you seek? Name: SMITH, WILLIAM CHARLES. Rank: Battery Quartermaster Serjeant Service No: 23664. Date of Death: 22/10/1914. Age: 36 Regiment/Service: Royal Field Artillery. 46th Bty. Grave Reference: N. 172642. Cemetery: BROMPTON CEMETERY Additional Information: Son of Mrs. Everest, of 17, First Cross Rd., Twickenham, Middx; husband of Henrietta Smith, of Arundel Clarence Rd., Fleet, Hants. Name: William Charles Smith. Birth Place: Salisbury. Death Date: 22 Oct 1914 Death Location: Home (meaning somewhere in the UK, not France) Enlistment Location: Aldershot. Rank: B.Q.M.S. Regiment: Royal Horse Artillery and Royal Field Artillery Number: 23664. Type of Casualty: Died of wounds Right age, right names, just reversed (!!!) and an early death.... If this is your man, then we might find more... The Medal Index Card for this man shows:- Name: William Charles Smith. Rank Battery Quarter Master Serjeant Regiment or Corps: 36th Royal Field Artillery. Regimental Number: 23664 Entered France 16 August 1914, Died of Wounds 21 October 1914 (actually looks like "16") Entitled to 1914 Star with clasp and rose emblem, British War and Victory medals. (Note that it refers to him as being 36th Battery not 46th as CWGC) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 5 October , 2012 Share Posted 5 October , 2012 Sadly, the fact his photo shows him in a mounted unit doesn't mean he served with a mounted unit in the GW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
echester Posted 5 October , 2012 Author Share Posted 5 October , 2012 Thanks to both Steve and Kevin. Unfortunately I do not have the original photograph and when I try to get a close up it just pixilates with no detail.. It is interesting that you think the picture may be pre war, I think Charles may have been in the yeomanry before the war started? I also think that when he left for war he was on a horse as this story was given to a living relative and passed on. Thank you Kevin for looking at the possible Charles Smiths and relating the information. We have the name correct he was Charles William, he was born in 1876, his father was Charles and his mother was Annie - they lived in Bromley Kent. Charles William was married to Catherine Minnie and was living in Islington in the 1911 Census. There is a story that Catherine did not receive a pension and when investigated it was found that another woman's name a address was recorded as his wife. However, we cannot be sure of this. I think that we may never get to bottom of this, but I will try to get the original photo and see if I can get close up on the head and shoulders and try you again. Once again many thanks for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 5 October , 2012 Share Posted 5 October , 2012 Only Charles Smith I can find born in Kent and died in 1914: Name: Charles Smith Birth Place: Hythe Residence: S. Acton, Middx. Death Date: 17 Sep 1914 Death Location: France & Flanders Enlistment Location: Barnet Rank: Rifleman Regiment: King's Royal Rifle Corps Battalion: 1st Battalion Number: 6006 Type of Casualty: Killed in action Theatre of War: Western European Theatre Rgds Tim D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
echester Posted 10 November , 2012 Author Share Posted 10 November , 2012 I have managed to find my gt grandfathers Army Reserve Attestation via the free Ancestry's records this week! The no.is 3022 and he signed up on 21st Sept 1915 - it states that he had previously served in the 56 Company of the Royal Garrison Artiliary and was discharged on 16 July 1911. I also managed to find his medal record and there are serveral references :- RGA Bomb. & Gunner 3022. and RGA 278022. Also at the top ther is 36th Compnay S Division RGA Gunner 10295 - I think this relates to perhaps his service in the Boer War?. It also looks like he entered the theatre of war in France on 29-9-15. How can I find out what action he saw and if he did in fact die in action or did he survive but never came back to his family for other reasons? Also there is a remark of CL Z 19-2-19, which is puzzling and ideas? Any help would be gratefully received. Thanks Elaine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin spof Posted 10 November , 2012 Admin Share Posted 10 November , 2012 Also there is a remark of CL Z 19-2-19, which is puzzling and ideas? Hi Elaine This translate into Class Z Reserve (in case hostilites started again) and he was put into this Reserve on 19th Feb 1919. This means it isn't your gt grandfather as this man survived the war. Glen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinrowlinson Posted 10 November , 2012 Share Posted 10 November , 2012 This Charles William Smith was married to Mary Ann (Wells), at Lambeth 30th August 1903, and his father was also Charles William and mother was Jane. They lived at 17 Stangate St, Westminster Bridge Road, London. I think you need to obtain the birth certificates from your parent backwards to correctly identify your Charles William Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 10 November , 2012 Share Posted 10 November , 2012 Hi Elaine, I have extracted some of the information in chronological order for you: Born Holborn 09/07/1895: Attested Gunner 10295 into the Royal Artillery. Was already serving in the militia 4th Bn, Middlesex Regiment at the time. Aged 19 years 11 months (born August 1875). 10/07/1895: Fort Rowner, Gosport - http://en.wikipedia....iki/Fort_Rowner 12/09/1895: 20 Company 01/10/1895: 3rd Class Education Certificate 13/11/1895: 36 Company 21/11/1895: Malta 22/10/1896: 2nd Class Education Certificate 06/11/1896: Gibraltar 09/07/1897: Good Conduct Pay 25/05/1898: Depression Range Finding Course 26/12/1899: Think this is Her Majesty's Troopship Jelunga to South Africa ?? 01/01/1902: Renamed 56 Company, RGA on reorganisation 09/07/1902: Good Conduct Pay 31/07/1902: War Gratuity (Boer War Service) - Acting Bombardier - Awarded Queens and KIngs South Africa Medal 29/06/1903: Transferred Army Reserve 08/07/1904: Discharged at end of engagement 19/07/1907: Attested again 16/07/1911: Discharged at end of engagement 21/09/1914: Attested (formerly Waterside Labourer). Residing with wife Mary at 17 Stangate Street, Westminster Road. Children Amy (14), Mary (12), Edith (10), Doris (23 months?). 21/09/1914: Gunner, 3 Depot number 3022 later charged to 278022 22/09/1914: Acting Bombardier 03/10/1914: 17 Heavy Battery, Royal Garrison Artillery 23/12/1914: Promoted to Bombardier 09/09/1915: Heavy Depot 14/09/1915: 25? Depot 29/09/1915: Proceeded to France, Base Details 16/12/1915: To Hospital, Havre 22/12/1915: Discharged from hospital 24/01/1916: Posted to 113 Heavy Battery 27/01/1916: Joined 113 Heavy Battery 11/04/1916: Leave to UK 17/04/1916: Returned from leave 09/01/1917: Reverts to Gunner own request 07/09/1917: Leave to UK 17/09/1917: Returns from leave 09/11/1917: Hospital wounded gas 13/11/1917: To UK per 'Aberdonia' 16/11/1917: Posted to Clearing Office 29/12/1917: Posted to Catterick 28/03/1918: Depot Catterick 29/03/1918: 1 Reserve Brigade HQ 29/03/1918: 2 Reserve Battery 24/04/1918: BEF (proceeded to France) 09/07/1918: Posted to 136 Heavy Battery 15/08/1918: Wounded remained on duty 20/08/1918: To ammunition dump? 12/09/1918: Rejoined unit 21/09/1918: War Pay increased 04/11/1918: To hospital (gassed?) 31/12/1918: To Base details from 10 Convalescent Depot 19/02/1919: Transferred to Class Z Reserve Father: Charles Mother: Jane Lived at Lollard? Street, Kensington and then 17 Stangate Street, Westminster Bridge Road. Wife: Mary Ann Wells (appears to have been living with him on barracks) Married 30/08/1903 Lambeth Children: Amy (11/09/1904), Mary (27/11/1905), Edith (08/02/1908), Doris (24/10/1915). Hope this is your man! Rgds Tim D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackblue Posted 10 November , 2012 Share Posted 10 November , 2012 His Boer War Medal Rolls indicate Gunner 10295: 36 Company, Southern Division, Royal Garrison Artillery Queens South Africa Medal - Clasps Johannesburg, Diamond Hill, Wittebergen and Cape Colony Kings South Africa Medal - Clasps unclear but should be 1901 and 1902 I think..... Rgds Tim D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
echester Posted 11 November , 2012 Author Share Posted 11 November , 2012 Thanks to all (especially Tim!), Unfortunately, this Charles is not my Gt Grandad - he looks to have been a great guy. I will keep looking in the hope I can find him. Thanks again Elaine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinrowlinson Posted 11 November , 2012 Share Posted 11 November , 2012 Birth certificates would be a start, as I said. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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