Peter Zieminski Posted 28 September , 2012 Share Posted 28 September , 2012 Dear All I was recently sent this photograph which proports to be of men from the 7th Btn The Queen's Own Royal West Kent Regiment and would like to ask if anyone can identify the horizontal badge being worn by three of the soldiers on their right sleeves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 28 September , 2012 Share Posted 28 September , 2012 Looks like one for Grumpy, Frogsmile and Joe Sweeney...perhaps not a profiiency or trade badge as it is being worn lower right sleeve. Specialist badge peculiar to the battalion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 28 September , 2012 Share Posted 28 September , 2012 Peter, I had seen a mention of horizontal cloth sleeve stripes/bars shown in a uniform reference book, saying they were used to " indicate the battalion's position within its brigade ". If your photograph shows such plain cloth stipes/bars, then perhaps these are those same battalion/brigade indicators. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 28 September , 2012 Share Posted 28 September , 2012 Is that not a Second World War phenomenon? E.g. Troops of 185 Brigade of 3rd Division on D-Day wore three scarlet stripes below the formation sign to indicate its junior position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 28 September , 2012 Share Posted 28 September , 2012 Is that not a Second World War phenomenon? E.g. Troops of 185 Brigade of 3rd Division on D-Day wore three scarlet stripes below the formation sign to indicate its junior position. Phil, I could not say regarding WW2, the book reference related specifically to WW1. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 28 September , 2012 Share Posted 28 September , 2012 My computer had a hissy fit as I tried to post this earlier. Managed to get a screen shot. It's an Ernest Brooks photo, available on IWM site, but can't find it now. I was just wondering if the satchel/bag the men are carrying was significant, bomber or other trade? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 28 September , 2012 Share Posted 28 September , 2012 Click Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Zieminski Posted 29 September , 2012 Author Share Posted 29 September , 2012 Thanks to all who have responded with suggestions and to Mike for locating the it's origin. Personally I can't see it being a Pay Parade as they look as if they are receiving written orders as opposed to pay. Grumpy thinks it looks like a staged photograph and I agree with him - there seems to be an Officer for every Other Rank! Whatever the insignia is it looks metallic to me - Please keep the suggestions coming if anyone can think of anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 29 September , 2012 Share Posted 29 September , 2012 Would men need paid anywhere near the front line? Surely they were paid when out of the line, and if they were, out of the line, why pick a shell hole? They also would not be wearing insignia anywhere near front line? Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 29 September , 2012 Share Posted 29 September , 2012 Company runners receiving written orders at battalion HQ? Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 29 September , 2012 Share Posted 29 September , 2012 Company runners receiving written orders at battalion HQ? Ron My first thought too - white armbands or tapes were used by some units to show who their runners were and these shorter pieces worn lower on the sleeve are certainly less conspicuous. I also reckon it is a staged picture as well. 6 or's + 6 Officers all in one shell hole and apparently in the front line, all very clean, all dressed the same,all wearing helmet covers with the battalion patch etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 29 September , 2012 Share Posted 29 September , 2012 I am inclined to say "runners", and staged, but I have never seen such a badge/ stripe/ indicator before. And if it is a pay parade, where is the blanket on the table? Nah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Zieminski Posted 29 September , 2012 Author Share Posted 29 September , 2012 To add to the possibilities if these are runners from the 7th Btn of The Queen's Own Royal West Kent Regiment, then one may of expected to see them wearing the cloth Runner's Patch on the top of their right sleeves (there is an example on a jacket at the Regimental Museum at Maidstone and in the IWM collection) - Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinrowlinson Posted 29 September , 2012 Share Posted 29 September , 2012 If I had any interest in this particular subject I would be looking at all the relevant Army Orders and Amy Council Instructions that may shed light on it. Just a quick look gives ACI 1523 of 1916; Clothing and Necessaries, Cloth patches and coloured ribands, wearing of. Maybe not the one, but one would think there is one out there somewhere covering what could be worn. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 30 September , 2012 Share Posted 30 September , 2012 Bodsworth's book on WW1 uniforms, page 9, refers to " special distinguishing badges were introduced for carrying parties etc., so as not to be confused with stragglers, when returning from the Front. These badges consisted of coloured bands, 1.1/2 inches wide, which were worn around the left forearm. " Listed are various coloured ' badges ' for Scouts, Runners, Regimental and Company Signallers, Carrying Parties, and Salvage Parties. Photos attached. LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 30 September , 2012 Share Posted 30 September , 2012 Knowing the properties of ortho film, and seeing these "patches" pale, they were not red, or yellow, possibly blue or green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 1 October , 2012 Share Posted 1 October , 2012 Runner's brassard as sported by a KOYLI private. This tunic is named and numbered, and comes with the owner's papers - which confirms the appointment as runner (IIRC - haven't dug them out lately); and includes a few signals carried too (albeit late ones, from the end of 1918 and into 1919). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Zieminski Posted 1 October , 2012 Author Share Posted 1 October , 2012 Hmm .. based on the evidence of the last few posts we may be able to rule out runners as the indicators appear to show that any insignia was worn either on the bottom of the left sleeve or around the forearm or on top of the right sleeve. May never resolve this one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 1 October , 2012 Share Posted 1 October , 2012 The following unit insignia is recorded for the 7th RWK - no positions given. 1. A coy: felt blue-grey rectangle, 2.5" x 0.75"; 2. B coy: felt blue-grey rectangle, 0.75" x 2.5"; 3. C coy: felt blue-grey diamond, 1.5" all sides; 4. D coy: felt blue-grey square, 1.25" x 1.25"; 5. HQ coy: felt blue-grey triangle, 1.5" base x 1.75" sides; 6. no coy specified: felt blue-grey square, 2.5" x 2.5"; 7. no coy specified (officers): felt blue-grey inverted triangle, 1.5" top x 2" sides; And runners: the triskelion as shown by Peter above (and seemingly unique to the RWK). Cheers, GT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonKerch Posted 1 October , 2012 Share Posted 1 October , 2012 Skipman, the satchel/bag carried across the body will be their PH bag, containing either a Hypo hood or PH helmet. The bag was always worn, before the Small Box respirator it was the main gas protection, used as a back up mask when the SBR was introduced. Helps to date the photo as being 1916, along with the Battle Bowlers. Cheers VK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 1 October , 2012 Share Posted 1 October , 2012 Ok thanks VK " Helps to date the photo as being 1916 " Summer going by the shorts? Could it be a training unit. Might they have had different stripes to denote different coys (just guessing) Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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