Jim Hastings Posted 27 September , 2012 Share Posted 27 September , 2012 Afternoon all, Has any forum member a photo of a genuine WW1 cap badge for the 23rd Londons that they would not mind posting on the forum please? My search has only found one on E-Bay and I'd prefer an expert to show what it was like. The Bn was represented by a different badge than that shown on E-Bay on CWGC headstones (see LLT page for London Regt) - would just like to know what the genuine article was. Many thanks Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDWARD1 Posted 27 September , 2012 Share Posted 27 September , 2012 Hope this helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hastings Posted 27 September , 2012 Author Share Posted 27 September , 2012 Thank you very much, I can see it is very much styled on the East Surrey's cap badge to whom they were affilliated. So they used a different badge on the headstones. Many thanks Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westkent78 Posted 27 September , 2012 Share Posted 27 September , 2012 What's your interest in them Jim? Matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hastings Posted 27 September , 2012 Author Share Posted 27 September , 2012 Hi Matthew, I was just browsing through the Croydon RoH and the Bn came up a few times, along with 22nd and 24th and saw the latter were associated with the Queens and wondered who the 23rd were and spun from there. I see you are the 23rd man - many Croydon men among it's ranks (I'm originally from Waddon in Croydon so interested in Croydon's war although I've since moved to Sussex)? Wrongly I thought they were a war generated Bn, I never realised the later numbered London's were well established well before the war. I think I've even come across some of them on memorials down here in Sussex - will have to check again - although you probably already know whether there are. Do you know why there is a different badge on the headstone? How did your interest start? Cheers Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hastings Posted 27 September , 2012 Author Share Posted 27 September , 2012 Matthew, Sussex associated men that fell with 23rd Londons - highly likely you have all or most of these already, but just in case: Pte 718241 George Edward Steadman KIA 22/8/18 (Lewes) Pte 6938 Edward George Laker KJA 5/11/1916 (Horsham) Pte 4467 Charles Tullett KIA 15/10/1916 (Horsham) (2/23rd) Pte 2815 Charles Frederick Breach KIA 26/05/1915 (Hove) – listed as Cpl on library war memorial Pte 700622 Ernest Breach KIA 23 /03/1918 (Hove) Pte 7502 Lewis Bernard Silverstein KIA 16/09/1916 (Worthing) (Cannot find on Worthing memorial) Pte 703279 Leslie Wallace Ayling KIA 07/12/1917 (Lindfield – by marriage) – although on war memorial he is listed as being in 1/3rd Londons Cheers Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7t2ndswinger Posted 28 September , 2012 Share Posted 28 September , 2012 Jim, The history of the 23rd started long before WW1. Prior to 1908 they were the 4th Volunteer Battalion East Surrey Regiment, HQ at Clapham Junction which is still there. Their full linage is as follows: 1859 Raised as the 7th Surrey RVC in Southwark 1880 Amalgamated with 26th Corps from Lavender Hill, Battersea 1887 Became 4th VB East Surrey Regiment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hastings Posted 28 September , 2012 Author Share Posted 28 September , 2012 Many thanks, Was their recruiting catchment area still Battersea, Southwark, Clapham Junc during the war, until conscription kicked in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westkent78 Posted 28 September , 2012 Share Posted 28 September , 2012 Jim, Thanks for those. I have them but it's always good to know where they're remembered in Sussex. Most of them mid 1916 transfers or later additions. Pre- war and early war recruitment remained Battersea, Southwark and Clapham although it's interesting that they didn't get a geographic location mentioned in their title unlike most of the other London battalions. The badge you see on CWGC is the official crest for the 23rd London and was carried at least into WW2. Perhaps it was deemed that the official crest was too complicated for a cap badge and so being descended from the 4th East Surrey Volunteers they chose the modified East Surrey badge for uniform use. I'll have to get digging to find out the truth of this. My interest stems from my grandfather being commissioned into them from the ASC and they were his 'local' regiment. Best regards, Matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hastings Posted 28 September , 2012 Author Share Posted 28 September , 2012 Excellent, Thank you Matthew. Do they have a memorial at all, other than inclusion on the London Regt one by the Bank of England? - only reason I ask is that I'm on a rare trip back to London tomorrow and I plan to go an see the Bank monument again and the 12th Rangers one as I'll be near it, and I'll pop and see the 23rd's if they have one. Many Croydon men from the originals? Very interesting, thank you Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7t2ndswinger Posted 28 September , 2012 Share Posted 28 September , 2012 Excellent, Thank you Matthew. Do they have a memorial at all, other than inclusion on the London Regt one by the Bank of England? - only reason I ask is that I'm on a rare trip back to London tomorrow and I plan to go an see the Bank monument again and the 12th Rangers one as I'll be near it, and I'll pop and see the 23rd's if they have one. Many Croydon men from the originals? Very interesting, thank you Jim Jim, This thread will interest you, worth becoming a member if you're not already. A few of us are doing our best to add to it all the time. http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17059 The 23rd London memorial is in St.Mary's Church, Church Road, Battersea SW11 3NA, it's one I've still to get to but knowing London Churches it'll probably be locked if there's no service on. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hastings Posted 28 September , 2012 Author Share Posted 28 September , 2012 Thank you Keith, That is a very interesting thread. I was lucky enough to get to see the London Scottish memorial as it was one of the TA units I went to look to join after I left the Regulars. I'll try to get up to the 23rd's tomorrow - if, as you say, its open. I seem to remember 6th City Rifles memorial is in a church too - I used to work in Fleet St - but I cannot remember which. I used to spend many lunches by the RF memorial in Holborn - I think it's a brilliant monument. thank you for passing the link on to me Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westkent78 Posted 28 September , 2012 Share Posted 28 September , 2012 Jim, If you happen to get some photos I'd be very appreciative. Being 'stuck' in the US and only getting one trip to London every couple of years if I'm lucky I haven't been able to go to St. Mary's yet. I'll have to look up my files on Croydon, but I think most came in later when the net was cast into wider Surrey. Have a good trip. Matthew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hastings Posted 28 September , 2012 Author Share Posted 28 September , 2012 Matthew if I don't get there tomorrow I will get there on another trip and unless another member gets you a photo before hand I'll get you a few asap. Its nice to see, from Keith's link, that the London Bn's (mostly) have their individual memorials. Maybe you have more Micham men than Croydon - just a thought thinking on locality ... All the best and thank you Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hastings Posted 28 September , 2012 Author Share Posted 28 September , 2012 OMG, I've just done a map check on St Mary's and a satelitte view - I worked opposite the church in Chelsea Harbour for a couple of months and saw it every day! Funny old World, least I won't get lost trying to find it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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