Help with identifying WW1 unit Pt 3

[mcpl.wray]

Sorry guys. I have another one that I was hoping to get some help with. His name is George Parker. I have been told he was with the Lincolnshire regiment with the rest of his brothers, but, the cap badge is definitely not the Lincs. I believe he ended the war as a Serjeant. I believe this was taken pre war or very early WW1. Again the scan is not the greatest. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated again!

Thanks

[Old Owl]

It could be one of the fusiliers because I think you can just see the flames above the round part of the grenade.

Most likely to be Royal Welsh Fusiliers but could also be Royal Munster Fusiliers or Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers or even Northumberland Fusiliers? But of course the image is very indistinct so it could be another unit altogether!!

Robert

[4thGordons]

It looks to me as though he has a GS [General Service] button in lieu of a cap-badge (like those on his jacket) Relatively common practice in the absence of badges. This would support your thought that this is early war.

It is NOT pre war as he is wearing a Pattern '14 Equipment belt so after the outbreak of war. Given that he is wearing gloves I suspect this would be Nov / Dec 1914 at the earliest.

Chris

[Old Owl]

It looks to me as though he has a GS [General Service] button in lieu of a cap-badge (like those on his jacket) Relatively common practice in the absence of badges. This would support your thought that this is early war.

It is NOT pre war as he is wearing a Pattern '14 Equipment belt so after the outbreak of war. Given that he is wearing gloves I suspect this would be Nov / Dec 1914 at the earliest.

Chris

Yes indeed, this would make sense as it does appear to be the same size as the tunic buttons

[mcpl.wray]

It looks to me as though he has a GS [General Service] button in lieu of a cap-badge (like those on his jacket) Relatively common practice in the absence of badges. This would support your thought that this is early war.

It is NOT pre war as he is wearing a Pattern '14 Equipment belt so after the outbreak of war. Given that he is wearing gloves I suspect this would be Nov / Dec 1914 at the earliest.

Chris

Thanks again for the insight old owl and 4th Gordons. You guys are really knowledgeable in this field. I thought it was a button as well. I would think that this may be something worn before qualification? Like today's recruit in basic training possibly?

[4thGordons]

I don't believe so - I think it was more to do with the massive expansion of the army in a very short period and the inability of the supply of badges and insignia to keep up.

I have a few photo that show this practice.

I am happy to be corrected but I think it was a stop-gap measure as a result of shortage rather than a pre qualification thing.

Chris

[mcpl.wray]

Outstanding. Thanks again for the assistance!!

[tn.drummond]

I don't believe so - I think it was more to do with the massive expansion of the army in a very short period and the inability of the supply of badges and insignia to keep up.

I have a few photo that show this practice.

I am happy to be corrected but I think it was a stop-gap measure as a result of shortage rather than a pre qualification thing.

Chris

The General Service button was worn as a cap badge by the Training Reserve (9/16-5/17) during the period when they were not affiliated to the County Regiments. There were approaching 210,000 of these recruits and as such photographs of the button badge are fairly often seen. They were mounted on a patch of red cloth (not always visible in studio shots) as was the cloth 'TR' shoulder strap title.

I am aware of a headstone depicting the GS insignia, dedicated to a TR man, in Maiden Bradley Churchyard (Wiltshire) which I one day hope to research a little.

Tim

[4thGordons]

Tim

Are you saying this (TR 1916-17) was the only context in which the GS badge was worn? or that TR wearing them was a context in addition to my suggested explanation of shortages of cap badges?

I was not aware of this context so it will add to my information on several photos -- thanks!

Chris

Edit: This would appear to show cloth backing -- but no shoulder titles

[tn.drummond]

Tim

Are you saying this (TR 1916-17) was the only context in which the GS badge was worn? or that TR wearing them was a context in addition to my suggested explanation of shortages of cap badges?

I was not aware of this context so it will add to my information on several photos -- thanks!

Chris

Edit: This would appear to show cloth backing -- but no shoulder titles

I would always associate them with the TR but your suggestion does seem logical where shortages applied however I don't know the latter to be correct. What we do know, as I'm sure you are aware, is that all manner of adaptations took place to cover shortages e.g Shoulder titles as Cap Badges and handwritten initials such as KWR across the band of a Service cap.

Regards

Tim