Territorial Force War Medal

[Ed Matthews]

Hello

I was interested to see on page 92 of Howard Williamsons book (The Collectors and Researchers Guide to the Great War, Volume 1, 2003) that there were at least eight Territorial Force War Medals (TFWM's) issued to members of the Grenadier Guards (including one officer). I understand from the table that the medals are actually named to the Grenadier Guards and was wondering whether any collectors had ever seen (or indeed own) such an example to any of the Foot Guards regiments? How would such an issue have come about? The following issues are noted:

Grenadier Guards - 1 Officer, 7 O/R's

Coldstream Guards - 1 Officer, 3 O/R's

Scots Guards - 2 O/R's

Welsh Guards - 1 O/R

Guards MG Regiment - 1 Officer 3 O/R's

Presumably, the recipient had been a member of a Territorial unit on the outbreak of War and met all of the relevant criteria for award of the medal before transferring at a later stage. However, wouldn't the medal have been named to that TF unit and not the Grenadier Guards?

It would be interesting to ascertain who the recipients of the TFWM actually were!

Rgds

Ed

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

This would probably arise by them being Territorials,pre War,but by them enlisting directly into the Guards @ the outbreak,their TF service would entitle them to the TFWM {providing they met the criteria for its award},though the Regiment the enlisted into would be the Guards{The TFW Medal Roll Pages for these Men would probably indicate the original unit} There were also a handful of these Medals to the RAF,as opposed to the RFC,both of which are very scarce

[Arnie]

I asssume that by TFWM you mean the Green with Gold Edges the Territorial Efficency Medal.

In peace time a TA soldier would have to have 12 years unbroken service. However all service after mobilization in 1914 counted as double.

Any soldier who tranffered to another unit that was not a TA unit his service in that unit would count towards the medal.

Some old TA soldiers became entitled to a 2nd clasp for TFEM due to war service,

[PhilB]

I think he really means the TFWM, Arny! Phil B

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

I asssume that by TFWM you mean the Green with Gold Edges the Territorial Efficency Medal.

No By TFWM I mean Territorial Force War Medal :: the scarcest WW1 British Campaign medal only awarded to those who were serving in or had agreed to serve with prior to September 1914 with the Territorial Forces Overseas,but who didn't serve overseas until after December 1915,thus not being entitled to a Campaign Star[1914/1914~1915}

Had I meant TEFM Territorial Force Efficiency Medal or one of its succesors I would have said so!Honest!

[Ed Matthews]

Many thanks for the replies.

This would probably arise by them being Territorials,pre War,but by them enlisting directly into the Guards @ the outbreak,their TF service would entitle them to the TFWM {providing they met the criteria for its award},though the Regiment the enlisted into would be the Guards

Surely though, their TF service before the War alone would not qualify them for award of the TFWM? The clause "undertaken on, or before, 30th September 1914 to serve outside the UK" would only have been applicable to members of the TF. By enlisting in the Foot Guards at the outset, pre-war TF service would not have been sufficient for award of the TFWM. Surely, the recipient would actually have to proceed overseas (and have elected to do so before 30th September 1914) as a member of a TF unit? I'm assuming that they tranferred to the Foot Guards subsequent to this but I don't understand why the medal is named to the later unit and not the original TF one!

I suppose the fact that the GMGR wasn't even formed until May 1918 adds weight to the fact that these men probably transferred from a TF unit later in the War.

As a matter of interest, has anyone ever seen one named to one of the Foot Guards?

I suppose that I should try and ascertain further details of the Grenadier recipients to try and clarify the situation!

Rgds

Ed

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

providing they met the criteria for its award

Surely, the recipient would actually have to proceed overseas (and have elected to do so before 30th September 1914) as a member of a TF unit?

Not necessarily,units such as Hunts Cyclists whose men didnt serve O/S as a unit received this Medal,sometimes named to Hunts Cyclists,Sometimes named to the Unit they served O/S with,which were not always TF units,probably an anomaly dependant on the Roll compilers,I think the clue lies with the statement "Elected to serve",this doesnt mean they had to be serving Overseas with a TF unit but just had to agree to serve if required,Consequently they could end up serving with any unit

[Jock Bruce]

I would go along with Ed.

TF men enlisted for home service - as I understand it the TFWM was meant to recognise the commitment of those pre-war TF men who had made an undertaking to serve overseas (i.e. signed the Imperial Service obligation) by 30 Sep but, for whatever reason, did not qualify for one of the stars. TF soldiers sent to India in 14/15 felt particularly strongly that they had been short changed in the matter of medals.

So I think an ex-TF man who enlisted for '3 years or the duration', even before 30 Sept, wasn't entitled regardless of any pre-war TF service - even although this was a General Service enlistment. By definition he wasn't a member of the TF when he was made the overseas commitment.

As for naming - I get really confused, even by stars and pairs.

Jcok

[Ed Matthews]

Gents,

Many thanks for your responses. I also think the fact that the recipient of the TFWM should be ineligible for the award of either the 1914 / 1914-15 Star is especially interesting.

A member of the TF on 4 August 1914 (or one with at least four years pre-war service who re-joins on or before 30 September 1914) who undertakes to serve overseas as a member of that TF unit and subsequently transfers to the Foot Guards would then had to have remained at home until 31 December 1915 (to fulfill the last criterion for the TFWM award). I suppose this is likely and given that we are discussing a minute issue of medals, anything is possible!

It does also depend upon how you interpret "served outside the UK between 4 August 1914 and 11 November 1918" - did this overseas service had to be with a TF unit? It would appear not from your example, Harry (which I don't dispute)! In which case, is the naming of the medal not a little nonsensical?

I still think that those issued to the GMGR are particularly intriguing.....

Anyway, I'll endeavour to idenfity the 7 x Grenadier recipients of the TFWM and report back on my findings.

Thanks again chaps!

Ed

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

I have just been looking more closely @ the Documents I have for CWA Duff{Duffy},who served in the Norfolk Regiment'TF; & RFC & RAF,he had been a Prewar Territorial[1913] in the 6th Bn,Norfolk Regiment,TF{Cyclists},@ the outbreak of War he was embodied into the 2/6th Bn,& served with them for some time @ Home in Coastal Defences,before being posted/transferred to the RFC,in France 1916; as an Air Mechanic,then in 1918 to the RAF,Post 1918 he reverted to the Norfolk Regiment,TA.his Medals are:BWM/AVM :~AM RAF,TFWM :~AM RFC,TEM :~Cpl;Norfolk Regt,The Roll Page of the TFWM states"Unit First Served Overseas With" so presumably that is the answer,Medals should be named to the Unit the Serviceman FIRST served Overseas with,regardless of prior TF Unit[With which they would have had to be serving with & Elected to serve Overseas if required @ the Times specified to be eligible for the TFWM],however it would appear that in some instances{Hunts Cyclists Etc} Medals were erronously named to the Original parent unit,even though they didnt serve Overseas.it would be interesting to see what units are recorded on the Guards TFWM Page,as original units?

PS:

There was but one small TF Unit of the RFC "Hants RFC" based @ Farnborough

[Ed Matthews]

Many thanks for that informative reply. I'll look into the TFWM issue to the Grenadier Guards, especially the "original" unit and report back.

Rgds

Ed

[Coldstreamer]

Hello

Do you know the Coldstream details? I know of 2 men who got the medal and the officer was KIA - now thats a nice medal to have!

Ian

[Staffsyeoman]

Just for my twopenneth:

A warm glow, and in the modern vernacular, a 'big up' to Harry for recognising the TFWM as the 'rarest of the series'; I get so very weary of those who claim that the 14 Star and Bar is 'the rarest' (about four times as many).

I've transcribed the MGC TFWM roll, and quite a lot of Cyclists - Hunts, Northern, Kent, Highland, 8/Essex (Essex Cyclists) transferred MGC and qualified TFWM in the Corps. But most appear to have been named to original unit. A few examples of MGC TFWM roll Cyclists:

31885 PTE REID HK 133 COY 992 HD CYC BN DEATH ACCEPTED 25 MAR 17

67596 PTE MOORCROFT G 201 COY SJT 696 N CYC BN

33068 PTE KNOTT BJ 77 COY 89 HUNTS CYC BN

Strangely enough, Reid does not immediately appear in the CWGC....

Regards

Phil