Seaforth Barracks, Claremont Rd, Seaforth,Liverpool, Lancashire

[tullybrone]

Hi,

Can anyone help me with the history of this presuamably long gone (1950's?) establishment which I understand was the Kings Liverpool Regiment Depot?

The footprint has been built over with 3 high rise blocks of flats (1960's?) called Alexander, Churchill and Montgomery House respectively and low level maisonnettes called Kings Court - which all appear to reflect the former military use of the site.

Has anyone any photographs they can share?

Thanks

Steve Y

[CarylW]

Here are a couple of photos for starters.

http://www.flickr.co...N00/5457242562/

Scroll down on this site they have a good one

http://titanic.super...orth-sandsSteve

One here too, same as above but with a little history that I can't verify

Seaforth Barracks, Litherland opened in 1882 and closed 1958, originally being constructed as a cavalry barracks with accomodation for officers; married men, barrack blocks for 128 other ranks and stabling for 80 horses.

http://www.bcmh.org.uk/images.php

More history here:

http://www.litherlan...ffice_1917.html

Includes this that may answer your query

....The barracks later became a depot for the King’s Liverpool Regiment sometime after 1911, becoming the depot for the 3rd and 4th Reserve Battalions of the King's Liverpool Regiment.....

Caryl

[tullybrone]

Thank you Caryl.

Thanks. From my local knowledge I think that the photo of the main gate is likely to be on the Claremont Road side of the barracks where there are some imposing late 19c terraced houses still standing.

Steve Y

[hazelclark]

Does anyone know why it was called the Seaforth Barracks? Did it ever have anything to do with the Seaforth Highlanders?

Thanks,

Hazel

[daggers]

There was a link with the Gladstone family who were merchants and politicians in Liverpool. When such people found the town overcrowded they moved out to what was open country and I believe their new house was given the name Seaforth House. They were Scots who came south. WEG was the most famous.

The district name grew from the house.

I did hear the same question asked when in that area, in a bus.

Ian Riley may challenge this, having more local knowledge.

Daggers

[hazelclark]

Thanks. The reason I asked was that I can't POSITIVELY find my Grandfather in the 1911 census in either India or Britain and it might have been one more place to check.

H.C.

[Ian Riley]

Daggers, you have great faith in me; too much I fear. Never quite got to the bottom of the naming of Seaforth even though I first asked the question at the age of 8. I am sure I even remember bodies of marching troops in the area that my grandmother had to be restrained from driving through. A well known on-line encyclopaedia declares that it might depend on Old Norse 'sea inlet' and gives evidence without citation that it was recorded as Safforde in 1128. My copy of History of Crosby and Area is at my mother's house. My money would be on it taking its name from Seaforth House though there may be evidence to the contrary on earlier maps. Waterloo, just to the north, got named in a patriotic frenzy sometime after 1815.

I did use Seaforth Barracks as a cadet at school which must date me somewhat. It was still rigged for some accommodation then (about 1963?).

The Victoria County History might provide the answer.

Ian

[daggers]

Googling provides many clues, and wiki agrees! The Gladstones named their house after the clan from which Mrs G was descended.

D

[Sandie Hayes]

I remember being corrected by our history master at school after foolishly telling class mates that the Seaforth Highlanders were from Seaforth, Liverpool.

He told the class, after he'd finished laughing, that there was a tentative link. His version was that Seaforth took it's name from Seaforth House, named after Lord Seaforth. I learnt later that he was the maternal grandfather of William Gladstone (Seaforth, not the history master). My understanding is that the Gladstone family built Seaforth House as a 'holiday home' a few miles along the coast from their house in Rodney Street. A village of 'holiday homes' grew around the house and that village became known as Seaforth.

Don't know if this is truth or fiction - The Gladstone family earned their wealth from slavery (true) and owned a sugar plantation in Demerera (again true). The plantation house was also named Seaforth and was burned down after a drunken card game when an oil lamp was knocked over (not sure, sounds a bit Gone With The Wind!).

Sandie

[andalucia]

The designer of the new housing made sure the lands former use was remembered.

[Ian Riley]

Rawson Road? Is that a second round of building on the barracks site? Those houses have more of a 1990s feel than 1960s

[WillEll]

The photo of the horseman is taken at the main entrance which WAS in Rawson Rd,you are correct Ian. This brickwork is in almost exactly the same place. There was another entrance in Claremont Rd,just around the corner from where the brickwork guard is shown,and was an arch topped pedestrians only entrance. I was born in Gordon Rd and lived in #79 Claremont from 1956 till my teenage years.

There was many a drunken soldier poured out from a 3 wheeled scammel railway cart at that gate I can assure you.

Yes Ian,the original 70's 'maisonettes' etc were pulled down and rebuilt as semi's in the 90's at the same time as expanding the estate to cover the entire barracks area,

A Crosby man by the name of Stephen S Cusher was a photographer in the village of Gt Crosby and took very many photographs of the area in the late 19th and early 20th Century. Many were published by the Crosby Herald but Tom Heath has used many in his book,part of the Images of England series (ISBN 0 752421549)in it there are a few of Seaforth Barracks and even a tank 'hiding' at the potters barn park gate ?

[Guest]

Hi

Are there any records available of the artillery officers who served at the Seaforth Barracks, circa 1890s?

Sharon

[Guest KMJ]

I lived on Rawson Road from 1958 to 1970.  My parents had been there for years before as well.   guess my memories are not clear until early 60's, 63 64 I guess.  On the other side of Rawson Road, opposite the barracks were large timber storage sheds.  The rear part of the barracks area, along with many other properties on Sandy Lane were evacuated and then demolished in the early mid 60's.  I remember this beacuse there were some very nice houses, though mostly broken into bedsits.  Also my friend lived in a post war prefab there.  King's Court was the collection of three tower blocks (14 storeys) built with surrounding maisonettes.  The building site was a play area for us as children, I remember being lowered the full height of the building in a backet and chain used for cement.  The towers include Winston and Churchill house I think, can't remember the third.  The corner of Claremont and Rawson remained a TA barracks for several years.  I knew the family that lived there and as Rawson Rd was rebuilt, losing many of the side streets, they became our neighbours again.  My mother once told me that she remembered Itaian POWs being marched from the barracks to go to church on Sundays.

[Guest]

I was posted to HQ North West  Ports, an RE unit at Seaforth Barracks in 1953. I was in the RASC and helped run the Orderly  Room and Medical Reception Station. The Commandant was a Major  in the RE, the Adjutant was a Captain in the Royal Irish Fusiliers and the RSM was in the Border Regt. A mixed bunch we were responsible for processing regiments and armaments going abroad on PYTHON tours and re-settling them upon return to the UK. I worked aboard troop ships when they docked with a Captain  in the WRAC. Otherwise we wore civvies except for parades.
Behind  the Sgts’ Mess by the Officers’ Mess were stabling for horses and I saw the stable used by Lt Siegfried Sassoon MC, RWF, the WW1 poet and friend of Lt Wilfred Owen MC, MANCHESTER Regt who was an old boy of my school in Birkenhead. Sassoon was at Seaforth Barracks after leaving Craiglochart Military  Hospital, Edinburgh, en-route to return to the Somme and death.

these were the final days of Seaforth Barracks as the Depot and HQ of the King’sLiverpool Regt had moved earlier to Preston.

graham Vahey

[daggers]

SS did not die on the Somme.

[FlyingJack]

Regarding Seaforth Barracks, would there be any records of regiments that may have been posted there around 1912/13? 

Thanks

[tullybrone]

On 27/09/2016 at 18:49, Guest KMJ said:

I lived on Rawson Road from 1958 to 1970.  My parents had been there for years before as well.   guess my memories are not clear until early 60's, 63 64 I guess.  On the other side of Rawson Road, opposite the barracks were large timber storage sheds.  The rear part of the barracks area, along with many other properties on Sandy Lane were evacuated and then demolished in the early mid 60's.  I remember this beacuse there were some very nice houses, though mostly broken into bedsits.  Also my friend lived in a post war prefab there.  King's Court was the collection of three tower blocks (14 storeys) built with surrounding maisonettes.  The building site was a play area for us as children, I remember being lowered the full height of the building in a backet and chain used for cement.  The towers include Winston and Churchill house I think, can't remember the third.  The corner of Claremont and Rawson remained a TA barracks for several years.  I knew the family that lived there and as Rawson Rd was rebuilt, losing many of the side streets, they became our neighbours again.  My mother once told me that she remembered Itaian POWs being marched from the barracks to go to church on Sundays.

I must have missed this post.

 

The 3 tower blocks were called Churchill, Montgomery and Alexander.

 

Steve

[FROGSMILE]

Seaforth Barracks has another claim to fame that has sadly been forgotten.  It was one of the earliest (and might even have been the first, but Woolwich seems more likely) consolidated training establishments for Boy Entrant soldiers, in this case for the Royal Garrison Artillery, who had a depot there.  Whereas cavalry and infantry Boy Entrants were still training with their regiments and battalions, the Boy Trumpeters of the branches of the Royal Artillery were trained at centralised locations where their discrete needs and administration could be better organised (economy of scale) and catered for.  The exact date when this change was first introduced is unclear, but it seems to have been at some point during the course of the 2nd Anglo/Boer War, when so many units were sent on service.  I enclose a very rare photo of the RGA boy trumpeters at Seaforth Barracks around 1905, just after the issue of Brodrick caps. In the front centre is the officer commanding the Boys and immediately flanking him the three instructional staff, a trumpet major, a corporal and a bombardier.  The field artillery (RFA and RHA) equivalent was at Woolwich.  It’s interesting that a tarpaulin has been laid out on the floor so that uniforms were not dirtied on the cobblestones.

Edited 18 August , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

22 hours ago, FlyingJack said:

Regarding Seaforth Barracks, would there be any records of regiments that may have been posted there around 1912/13? 

Thanks

You can trace them via the British Army “Military Periodicals” page at FIBISwiki.  Once the page is open scroll down and you will see the The United Service Journal and Naval and Military Magazine periodicals that published distribution/stations of the British Army for each year.  If you get stuck ask @MaureenE but in the first instance it’s best to try yourself, it’s fairly intuitive: https://wiki.fibis.org/w/Military_periodicals_online

Edited 18 August , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[MaureenE]

On the same FIBIS Fibiwiki page " Military periodicals online" there is a link to  Monthly Army Lists  which have information about deployments . Look at the Contents pages

Direct link https://wiki.fibis.org/w/Army_List_for_British_Army_online#Monthly_Army_List

Maureen

[FlyingJack]

9 hours ago, MaureenE said:

On the same FIBIS Fibiwiki page " Military periodicals online" there is a link to  Monthly Army Lists  which have information about deployments . Look at the Contents pages

Direct link https://wiki.fibis.org/w/Army_List_for_British_Army_online#Monthly_Army_List

Maureen

Thanks Maureen, will look it up. 

[FlyingJack]

17 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Seaforth Barracks has another claim to fame that has sadly been forgotten.  It was one of the earliest (and might even have been the first, but Woolwich seems more likely) consolidated training establishments for Boy Entrant soldiers, in this case for the Royal Garrison Artillery.  Whereas cavalry and infantry Boy Entrants were still training with their regiments and battalions, the Boy Trumpeters of the branches of the Royal Artillery were trained at centralised locations where their discrete needs and administration could be better organised (economy of scale) and catered for.  The exact date when this change was first introduced is unclear, but it seems to have been at some point during the course of the 2nd Anglo/Boer War, when so many units were sent on service.  I enclose a very rare photo of the RGA boy trumpeters at Seaforth Barracks around 1905, just after the issue of Brodrick caps. In the front centre is the officer commanding the Boys and immediately flanking him the three instructional staff, a trumpet major, a corporal and a bombardier.  The field artillery (RFA and RHA) equivalent was at Woolwich.  It’s interesting that a tarpaulin has been laid out on the floor so that uniforms were not dirtied on the cobblestones.

Amazing photo! thanks for the advice. 

 

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, FlyingJack said:

Amazing photo! thanks for the advice. 

 

From memory I think that the RGA had departed by 1912 and consolidated elsewhere, but I’d need to check.  There had been RGA in the barracks for a long time (including prior to their formation as a separate branch - garrison artillerymen still existed), as they provided the gunners for the fortresses guarding the entrance to defended ports like Liverpool and the mouth of the Mersey.

RGA Organisation:

The Eastern Division, HQ at Dover. Depot companies at Dover and Great Yarmouth.
The Southern Division, HQ at Portsmouth. Depot companies at Gosport and Seaforth (near Liverpool).
The Western Division, HQ at Devonport. Depot companies at Plymouth and Scarborough.

NB.  They probably vacated Seaforth Bks when the King’s (Liverpool) Regiment moved in to take over the barracks as their regimental depot in 1910.

Edited 18 August , 2021 by FROGSMILE