dravin Posted 14 August , 2012 Share Posted 14 August , 2012 I have a correspondant who is trying to identify the regiment a man served in by a single head and shoulders photo, he wears nothing on his head and no insignia is in view , they belive the photo is of a man who served in WW2 but I am not so sure He is wearing what to me looks like WW1 battle dress with brass (or at least shiny) buttons and shoulder reinforcement patches, breast pockets are on the surface with plain straight flaps The head and shoulders photo is in an oval card frame with for King & Country printed on it I know he could be wearing an older battle dress but wondered when brass or shiny buttons were discontinued? Any thoughts please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoppage Drill Posted 14 August , 2012 Share Posted 14 August , 2012 Depends what you mean. OR's Service Dress stayed on general issue until 1939, and had brass buttons apart from Rifle regiments. Then Battledress came in, which had concealed plastic buttons, but greatcoats still had brass buttons, as did formal uniforms such as No 1 Dress, for those who were issued with it. The modern aluminium anodised "Staybrites" started to come in about the mid-1950's. No 2 Dress was introduced in 1960, and had shiny Staybrites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REME245 Posted 15 August , 2012 Share Posted 15 August , 2012 The original pattern of battledress with concealed buttons retained brass or other metal dish metal buttons. The Plastic version of the standard GS Brass Button was widly used on Great Coats throughtout World War Two and well into the 1950's. Most individuals/Units however especialy post-war replaced them with the Brass version at the earliest oportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjohn Posted 15 August , 2012 Share Posted 15 August , 2012 When I joined up in Sep 1970, The greatcoats came from stores some with brass GS buttons and some with plastic. When these went for tailoring Regimental buttons [staybrite] were put on the original ones came back in the pockets.I did collect a load dont know what happened to them though. In about 1983/4 IIRC I was with The Irish Rangers, they were on public duties at the time,The greatcoats likewise came from stores with GS buttons to be changed for Regimental ones for use and put back afterwards on return to central pool stocks. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dravin Posted 15 August , 2012 Author Share Posted 15 August , 2012 Thank you all for your replies I fear this is a wild goose chase on reflection I was aware the 1937 battle dress with concealed buttons came in with insert pockets rather than surface For some reason I thought they had discontinued bright buttons for the duration but on reflection that seems unlikely to be a useful factor as old stock was used anyway and there is no way to say with any certainty the man in the photo was not wearing an earlier issue uniform, I was thinking along the lines of the compressed type buttons but I can see now this is unlikely to help dating this photo Clutching at straws here to try and place this man in a regiment I generally deal with WW1 so this being WW2 it is proving problematic As there are no online medal rolls for WW2 (as far as I know) are there any other suggestions to place a named man in a regiment? The correspondant is applying for the 1939 identity registration but that may be before he was in the forces Appreciate the thoughts so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 15 August , 2012 Share Posted 15 August , 2012 Plastic buttons were supplied from 1942 on all new greatcoats, it wasn't an issue for tunics. Plastic buttons and buckles were issued to the RAF on new tunics and when supplies of the old type ran out from 1942/43. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dravin Posted 15 August , 2012 Author Share Posted 15 August , 2012 Plastic buttons were supplied from 1942 on all new greatcoats, it wasn't an issue for tunics. Plastic buttons and buckles were issued to the RAF on new tunics and when supplies of the old type ran out from 1942/43. Thanks for your input, unfortunately I realise now my request was not thought through well enough and is unlikely to help find the man in questions regiment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 15 August , 2012 Share Posted 15 August , 2012 Yes but I like the sound of my own typing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REME245 Posted 15 August , 2012 Share Posted 15 August , 2012 If you can clearly see the collar and associated pleats of the SD Tunic you should be able to tell if it is of WW1 manufacture or later. "Plastic buttons were supplied from 1942 on all new greatcoats, it wasn't an issue for tunics" I have seen lots of unissued WW2 manufacture SD Tinics with plastic buttons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 15 August , 2012 Share Posted 15 August , 2012 We were talking about brass buttons but hey ho. I'm sure you have seen plenty of them, but thats my point, it wasn't an issue. I'm no expert but did the 37 and 40 ptn come with plastic buttons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dravin Posted 15 August , 2012 Author Share Posted 15 August , 2012 If you can clearly see the collar and associated pleats of the SD Tunic you should be able to tell if it is of WW1 manufacture or later. "Plastic buttons were supplied from 1942 on all new greatcoats, it wasn't an issue for tunics" I have seen lots of unissued WW2 manufacture SD Tinics with plastic buttons. This man appears to be wearing standard pre 1937 dress, ie it has shoulder patches, standard collar and single dart , pleated pockets are on the surface, there are no badges or webbing in view, two brass buttons in view and brass buttons on the pockets and shoulders I have now been sent a scan of the back of the photo which is a post card, photographer is C.V. Shorthouse 41 Ravenhill road Belfast So will see what I can turn up on him , thanks again for all input Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REME245 Posted 16 August , 2012 Share Posted 16 August , 2012 We were talking about brass buttons but hey ho. I'm sure you have seen plenty of them, but thats my point, it wasn't an issue. I'm no expert but did the 37 and 40 ptn come with plastic buttons? The Brass Button question has been a bit of a dead end as we have established as you cannot date a Service Dress Tunic with brass button to either war. You can however tell when the tunic was manufactured from the pleats which goes a little way to establishing if it is a WW1 or WW2 photogragh which was part of the original question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper LG Posted 19 September , 2012 Share Posted 19 September , 2012 I know that this is a very late reply but SD tunics with staybright/brass buttons were still being worn by the Household Cavalry up to at least the mid sixties and also by Junior Leader Regiments up to at least 61. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 19 September , 2012 Share Posted 19 September , 2012 Just to muddy the waters I've seen photos of LDF/Home Guard types wearing pre WW2 service dress C1940 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 19 September , 2012 Share Posted 19 September , 2012 It is necessary to see the photo to draw any kind of conclusion. It may indeed not be possible to date it, but quite often there is more information there than might appear, eg the cut of the tunic, the hairstyle if no cap is worn, the overall look of the photo, etc. However, trying to date a photo from a secondhand description is usually a waste of time. If you have a scan of the back, then presumably you either have or can get a scan of the front. In which case, how about posting it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merioneth Posted 16 October , 2012 Share Posted 16 October , 2012 All Arms Junior Leader Leaders Regiment were issued with anodised aluminium buttons and badges in mid 1959. Anodised aluminium badges and buttons were in issue to some regiments from late 40's rather than 50's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 17 October , 2012 Share Posted 17 October , 2012 Do you have a reference for the date of general issue of a/a buttons? The reference I have is 1950 'Buttons, Guide for Collectors'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merioneth Posted 17 October , 2012 Share Posted 17 October , 2012 I don't have a confirmed date but I believe AA issue was based on the same format as other changed insignia ie with the instruction to be issued when 'Present stocks are exhausted'. Ripley, 2002 states "Gilt and brass buttons continued until anodised buttons began to be used in the late 1940s." If the Guru states it I accept it without argument! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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