bonzo@47 Posted 14 August , 2012 Share Posted 14 August , 2012 This is my first post so please bear with me. I am researching a soldier in the Royal Engineers (Motor Cycle), see photo.. Cpl William Henry Wells 29654 although he went to become sargent. He was a dispatch rider and was stationed at Mons at some time. While on a mission to Valenciennes he met and eventually married a French madamoiselle in 1922. Can anyone tell me anything about his uniform specially the arm bands. I assume his cap badge is that of Royal Engineers, can anyone verify. Thankyou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asanewt Posted 14 August , 2012 Share Posted 14 August , 2012 Could be Signaller white over blue bands if memory serves or less likely stretcher bearer. Badge above chevrons may indicate instructor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tn.drummond Posted 14 August , 2012 Share Posted 14 August , 2012 Welcome to the Forum. Lovely crisp photograph and detail and you're spot on with the R.E cap badge. The arm band (brassard) is the white over blue of a signaller. The grenade above the three sergeants stripes ( chevrons) indicate a senior or staff sergeant to me but there is a bit of debate currently on air about this so you may want to check out the following thread: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=182649&pid=1785363&st=0entry1785363 The chevrons on the lower arm indicate oversea service, in this case one red (not absolutely clear) for service in 1914 followed by three blue chevrons for subsequent years (though not necessarily consecutive). These service chevrons were not issued until 1918 and this fact, combined with the medal ribbon on his left breast (which looks to be a service rather than gallantry award - not my bag I'm afraid) indicate a post war photograph. Suddery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 14 August , 2012 Share Posted 14 August , 2012 I think that the ribbon is that for the Mons (or 1914) Star and it is possible that the photo was taken before the end of the war? but he looks jolly clean and tidy--so perhaps it is just post WW1!! Suddery seems to have cleared all the other points Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Clifton Posted 15 August , 2012 Share Posted 15 August , 2012 Hello Bonzo, and welcome to the Forum! There is no red overseas service chevron so he did not go abroad in 1914. The medal ribbon is probably that of the 1914-15 Star (which was the same as for the 1014 Star) and would indicate service abroad before 31 Dec 1915. It is possible that he was sent home, perhaps as an instructor as JulesW suggests, before 1918 or I would expect to see four overseas chevrons. Alternatively, if we are wrong about the medal ribbon, he may not have gone abroad until 1916. A motor-cycle connection for signallers indicates that he would have been a despatch rider. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 15 August , 2012 Share Posted 15 August , 2012 Hello Bonzo, and welcome to the Forum! There is no red overseas service chevron so he did not go abroad in 1914. The medal ribbon is probably that of the 1914-15 Star (which was the same as for the 1014 Star) and would indicate service abroad before 31 Dec 1915. It is possible that he was sent home, perhaps as an instructor as JulesW suggests, before 1918 or I would expect to see four overseas chevrons. Alternatively, if we are wrong about the medal ribbon, he may not have gone abroad until 1916. A motor-cycle connection for signallers indicates that he would have been a despatch rider. Ron Hi Ron, If you look closely at the photo you will see that there is almost certainly the 'red' overseas service chevron signifying service at the front in 1914(as pointed out by Suddery) and hence the ribbon will be that of the 1914 Star. I think that the 1914 chevron does not show up well on some photos, but I am sure that it is here on this one. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzo@47 Posted 15 August , 2012 Author Share Posted 15 August , 2012 I thank everyone for there welcome to the Forum. What a wealth of knowledge there is out there. Thank you all very much, there is lot to ponder on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tipperary Posted 15 August , 2012 Share Posted 15 August , 2012 Hi bonzo had a search on ancestry last night for his MIC to no avail the NA link is below yo can download for £3.50ish.It should give you the date entered theatre of war and you will know which medal he wears.john http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?queryType=1&resultcount=1&Edoc_Id=6028813 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 15 August , 2012 Share Posted 15 August , 2012 The MIC is there on Ancestry. Saw it last night. 8-11-1914 date of entry I believe. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Underdown Posted 15 August , 2012 Share Posted 15 August , 2012 To expand one thing slightly despatch riders came under the Royal Engineers (Signal Service), following the war this was separated into an independent corps, the Royal Corps of Signals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccsk Posted 15 August , 2012 Share Posted 15 August , 2012 The MIC is there on Ancestry. Saw it last night. 8-11-1914 date of entry I believe. Steve. Steve is is correct with the date above so the 1914 star ribbon and red chevron can be confirmed. His highest rank on the MIC is given as acting sergeant. Search for Wm H Wells if you are having trouble finding his MIC on Ancestry. Regards, Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Owl Posted 15 August , 2012 Share Posted 15 August , 2012 "---so the 1914 star ribbon and red chevron can be confirmed." Regards, Steve Thanks Steve for confirming my own thoughts on this, and also for confirming that my eyes don't need testing after all Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 15 August , 2012 Share Posted 15 August , 2012 29654 Cpl William Henry Wells appears to belong to a group of men with previous experience as motor mechanics and engineers (and presumably also proficient motorcycle riders) specifically enlisted into the Royal Engineers to be Motor Cyclists. It looks like a dozen or two of them were enlisted on 2nd November 1914 into the Motor Cylist Section of the Royal Engineers and sent to France only six days later, obviously with minimal army training, as Motorcylist Corporals on 8th November 1914. Those whose details I have found were attached to Divisional Signal Companies (both with British and Indian Divisions). I see William was a "Motor & Cycle improver" at Hornchurch on the 1911 Census, so he certainly fits with the other men above. Although overseas chevrons were first issued in early 1918 they were backdated. Each chevron was gained at the start of each year of service. After twelve months overseas (a short period of leave to the UK still counted as overseas) a new chevron was granted. So William's chevrons would be available on 8-11-1914 (red), 8-11-1915 (blue#1), 8-11-1916 (blue#2) and 8-11-1917 (blue#3). So either the photograph was taken before his fourth blue stripe was issued for his service dated 8-11-1918 or perhaps he had a period of UK service or was evacuated for a time with wounds or sickness as Ron has mentioned above. 1914 Star ribbons were issue from late 1917 onwards though not all were issued in one foul swoop. The medals were sent to the men (or their next of kin) after the war. As far as I know, all Royal Engineer Sergeants wore the grenade above their Sergeants stripes. The pale blue and white arm band on the sleeve is indeed a signallers brassard as has already been mentioned. His trousers also seem to have reinforcements on the inside of the legs typical of despatch riders. I see that he is on a couple of Ancestry trees. I am pretty sure that the Service Record and Medal Card attached to them do not match to the Royal Engineer shown above? You suggest that he may still have been in the army in 1922. If so, then his service record will still be held by the Ministry Of Defence. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juniorhack Posted 6 September , 2012 Share Posted 6 September , 2012 Hi, I also have relative who was in the Royal engineers and was possibly a dispatch rider,I've tried to obtain his service records but they seem to have been amongst the 'burnt' records,is there any way I can find out about his service,I note his MIC has no star,does that mean he didn't serve in Europe?Or didn't leave this country? Yours in anticipation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juniorhack Posted 22 March , 2014 Share Posted 22 March , 2014 I've recently discovered that he served with TE Lawrence in the Middle East, can any one throw any light upon his service? I can supply a service number if this helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hill89 Posted 25 April , 2014 Share Posted 25 April , 2014 Steve's info seems spot-on, quote: "a group of men with previous experience as motor mechanics and engineers (and presumably also proficient motorcycle riders) specifically enlisted into the Royal Engineers to be Motor Cyclists. It looks like a dozen or two of them were enlisted on 2nd November 1914 into the Motor Cylist Section of the Royal Engineers and sent to France only six days later, obviously with minimal army training, as Motorcylist Corporals on 8th November 1914..." This ties in with info about my relative Cpl (later Lt) Alfred B Gibaud [Rgt no 29048] which I will summarise from a letter he sent home to his family in Bristol who received the letter17 November 1914. He left England a fortnight before as a motor despatch rider with the Royal Engineers and wrote that he is at the headquarters of the 6th Division in France not far from the Belgian frontier, and that he is near a lot of Indian troops, who are doing "magnificent work." He adds that he is in the fresh air most of the time, gets plenty of good, plain food and never felt more fit and well. In his first experience of carrying despatches at night without lights he was at one time within 1,500 yards of the German trenches. It is really awful, he says, to see the damage that is being done by the big shell fire, and to observe the large number of refugees wandering about waiting for the British to advance so that they can get back to their homes.... So if he enlisted on 2nd Nov 1914 as Steve says, and Gibaud's letter indicates that he left England 3rd Nov 1914 this correlates perfectly. Steve, if you or any one else has more info on these 'motor-cycle despatch riders', I would be very thankful. For example what is the geographical locationof the HQ of the 6th Division in France [not far from the Belgian frontier - as stated in the letter]? and who are the 'Indian troops' refered to? Best regards to all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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