1 inch Aiming Tube

[TonyE]

One for the artillery experts!

A friend recently found the remains of a 1 inch Aiming Tube cartridge on a old WW2 site in the UK which had also been used in WWI.

What interested me was that it was a "Cartridge Aiming Rifle 1 inch Electric Mark IV (M)". These were declared obsolete in June 1914 with instructions that remaining stock should be used up in practice.

As far as I was aware, electric ignition was used by the Royal Navy and some coastal artillery weapons, the army generally using percussion tubes, yet this site was well inland. Were there any large calibre field pieces that used electric ignition?

Picture attached for those who wonder what one looks like.

Regards

TonyE

[centurion]

I think the 14 inch Railway guns "Boche Buster, Scene Shifter" had electric ignition, the guns having originally been naval weapons intended for a Japanese battleship. They also had electric generators to work the ammo hoists so power was available. All the army's other big guns I think used percussion.

[TonyE]

Thanks, C.

Regards

TonyE

[Old Tom]

The designation 'aiming tube' seems a little odd in relation to devices for 'ignition'. Ignition is, I suppose a matter of the device, which looks like a large rifle cartridge, being detonated electrically so that the 'bullet' pierces the propellant bags and the burning chagre ignites their contents. Why aiming tube?

Old Tom

[centurion]

An aiming tube was essentially a small gun that could be fitted inside a much larger one. This allowed firing training to be carried out without the need to lob very large shells every time. However the aiming tube would need to use the ignition system used on the larger weapon. If you read Tony's OP you'll see that he refers to an "Aiming tube cartridge"

[Old Tom]

Many thanks! I had not heard of that technique. I feel some doubt as to its effectiveness. Clearly it would be cheaper, and perhaps there is a parallel with minature rifles being used to practice aiming and controlling fire but the weight of cartridge would be too low for the detachement to gain benefit, and the performance of the bullet would not mimic that of a full size round. Am I missing something?

Old Tom

[centurion]

Many thanks! I had not heard of that technique. I feel some doubt as to its effectiveness. Clearly it would be cheaper, and perhaps there is a parallel with minature rifles being used to practice aiming and controlling fire but the weight of cartridge would be too low for the detachement to gain benefit, and the performance of the bullet would not mimic that of a full size round. Am I missing something?

Old Tom

The clue's in the word aiming which was what was essentially being exercised along with firing - not lugging big shells for which I believe dummy shells were available. Perhaps they should have been called laying tubes.

[centurion]

See also http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=98285entry921041

BTW I have fired a Martini Henri, with the tube mentioned in this thread, many times.

[MikB]

The 16" guns in Nelson class battleships had 6 pr. subcalibre barrels, which fitted inside the main armament barrels, stored on a rack in the gunhouse for similar lower-cost firing practice. It must have been primarily for laying and training practice for the turret crew, because the loading of manually handled fixed ammunition would not have provided action much resembling the full-calbre procedure, whereas the process of maintaining correct aim on a target would be very similar apart from the offset due to much lower range.

Gunnery crews would be used to offsets, as these were used in full-calibre practice against friendly ships - 'throw-over' where shots were deliberately long, and 'throw-off' where they were deliberately offset for line. The target ships could then accurately report fall of shot for proper calibration of the shooting ship's guns.

Regards,

MikB