1903 bayonets

[shippingsteel]

That is a definite possibility. The Canadian soldiers were amongst some of the first "boots on the ground" over there. I purchased a couple of scarce pieces in excellent condition from guys after they came back. The good stuff was snapped up very early on. Before the locals began "sourcing" and "manufacturing" directly for the souvenir market trade.

Cheers,  SS 

[Winterhawk]

I would be happier (prefer)if the bayonet carried some Indian rebuild or ownership marks. All of the visible inspection marks are Enfield. It doesn't seem to tick many of the Indian use boxes . Referring to one of your previous posts on the availability of 1903 bayonets and them being frequently mounted with what is available,-Indian scabbards. This is undoubtedly an Indian scabbard and I just wonder if this bayonet has been tarted up and stuck in one for sale and was never anywhere near India. Without the Indian scabbard would you still think this was Indian usage? Sorry to be dragging this conversation out SS will give it a rest.

[shippingsteel]

Winterhawk, I don't mind taking the discussion further but as I indicated in a couple of previous posts, I believe this bayonet has seen Indian service. Notwithstanding a couple of early British use Inspection or reissue dates, notably '04 and possibly an '08, it was then likely shipped off to India, where the shorter length P1903 was looked upon more favourably and saw use for many more decades.

I take great care in inspecting each example very closely and looking at the available evidence provided by the bayonets condition and markings, before arriving at an opinion based on such evidence and my own experience.

But this opinion is only as good as the information provided which is usually by way of photos. If you want better informed opinion and discussion you need better photos of ALL the relevant markings. Like the pommel markings which are indeed present and I have zoomed in on. These things matter, but the average reader probably thinks I pull my thoughts and opinions straight out of my ****.!

Cheers,  SS 

[navydoc16]

On 22/01/2024 at 07:35, Winterhawk said:

I would be happier (prefer)if the bayonet carried some Indian rebuild or ownership marks. All of the visible inspection marks are Enfield. It doesn't seem to tick many of the Indian use boxes . Referring to one of your previous posts on the availability of 1903 bayonets and them being frequently mounted with what is available,-Indian scabbards. This is undoubtedly an Indian scabbard and I just wonder if this bayonet has been tarted up and stuck in one for sale and was never anywhere near India. Without the Indian scabbard would you still think this was Indian usage? Sorry to be dragging this conversation out SS will give it a rest.

If you need a second comment- the way the 1903- the font and the die grinder mark “dishing out” are almost textbook Indian refurb 1903 - I have several in my own collection. They are actually collectable in their own right - however being in that sort of post refurb conditon, I would wager it has gone straight from storage out on the commercial market. 
 

they were relatively cheap and common when they came out (90s if I remember correctly) but are now getting harder to find and commanding much more decent prices as folks start to respect and recognise Indias sacrifice and contribution in the war. Some of these 1903s that folks have never cared about saw serious war. 

 

kind regards

g

[Winterhawk]

Thanks for getting back, I guess we file this one under "Indian rebuild" Any idea when the Indians might have actually received these bayonets? Any ideas who used them and where. I assume they were used only in India?

[navydoc16]

7 hours ago, Winterhawk said:

Thanks for getting back, I guess we file this one under "Indian rebuild" Any idea when the Indians might have actually received these bayonets? Any ideas who used them and where. I assume they were used only in India?

I will get out the book tonight and have a look for you on the specifics- they would have been refurbished after the Great War and potentially after WW2 and put in storage, from there they were obviously never issued again as they were obsolete. 
 

what’s fun is that I have only ever seen one or two that were DP marked, it seems they were stored and forgotten about. They Indians had and still have a habit of storing a lot of old equipment and forgetting about it within their system of government- especially during paper record days.

 

kind regards

g 

Edited Tuesday at 12:23 by navydoc16

[navydoc16]

It is usually easy to see how old the bayonets are by how many times they’ve been refurbished

mine is below, 

the RFI factory converted ‘88 bayonets to 1903, yours and mine have been converted under the program to 1903s. So they are less of an Indian refurb and more of a proper aspect of 1903 collecting. They are also as I mentioned rather rare and mis-understood. 

Kind regards

g

 

Edited Tuesday at 23:05 by navydoc16

[Winterhawk]

The markings that are on your bayonet RFI for instance, was what I would of expected to see on mine to go with the Indian scabbard. I was surprised to see OA on your scabbard. I was under the impression this was a WWII Australian manufacturer. I have a 1943 WWII Indian bayonet with an Orange arsenal scabbard as well. Does this indicate Indian usage of the 1903 during WWII?

[navydoc16]

1 hour ago, Winterhawk said:

The markings that are on your bayonet RFI for instance, was what I would have expected to see on mine to go with the Indian scabbard. I was surprised to see OA on your scabbard. I was under the impression this was a WWII Australian manufacturer. I have a 1943 WWII Indian bayonet with an Orange arsenal scabbard as well. Does this indicate Indian usage of the 1903 during WWII?

Likely yours has been heavily polished, mine too- that RFI would have originally been very crisp just like the 1903. I have seen 1903s with the markings nearly completely obliterated. Mine was likely refurbished post WW2 using components from OA. In the late 40s and early 50s the US, UK and Australia offloaded a lot of scabbard fittings and weapons to India. 
 

in essence we all had way too much and India (especially bayonets and bayonet fittings) was the only one buying. I have a very rare true Mk1 no “*” with no false edge - bayonet here that was WW2 Australian OA (Orange Annex) I’ll dig it out and show you. 
 

kind regards

g

Edited Thursday at 05:18 by navydoc16