ww1 War Memorial Pentrefelin Caernarfon Gwynedd

[Myrapoyser]

I'm looking for information about the 8 names on this memorial I think that some of them would have joined the 13 th division of the RWF a volunteer unit I believe . Two soldiers have been traced through local family contacts.

[clive_hughes]

Where exactly is this Pentrefelin please? Is it the one between Criccieth and Porthmadog? I don't think there's one near Caernarfon town itself.

Member hywyn may be able to help you with this one - hopefully he will pick up on this thread.

Clive

[Sandie Hayes]

Without their names it's going to be a little difficult to help.

Soldiers Died in Great War only identifies this man:

Name: John James Eyton Birth Place: Wrexham Residence: Pentrefelin Death Date: 26 Sep 1917 Death Location: France & Flanders Enlistment Location: Wrexham, Rank: Private Regiment: Royal Welsh Fusiliers Battalion: 2nd Battalion Number: 36139 Type of Casualty: Killed in action Theatre of War: Western European Theatre

He was the son of Eliza Eyton of 39 Manley Rd, Wrexham. He has no known grave and is commemorated on the Tyne Cot Memorial, Belgium.

[asanewt]

may be some confusion here with Pentrefelin, in Wrexham rather than Caernarfon.0

From memory Pentrefelin is less than a mile from Manley Rd in the town of Wrexham.

[KevinBattle]

Well, using Pentrefelin on GSE there are 8 in total, but which Pentrefelin?

EDWARDS H 75818 1ST FIELD AMB 25/09/1916 ROYAL ARMY MEDICAL CORPS

JONES R 1242 5TH RESERVE BN 13/11/1918 GUARDS MACHINE GUN REGIMENT

MORRIS WT 200844 B COY 4TH BN 10/06/1917 ROYAL WELSH FUSILIERS

PUGH A 49163 11TH BN 16/10/1916 CHESHIRE REGIMENT

WOOD J PLY/17465 2ND RM BN RN DIV 26/12/1915 ROYAL MARINE LIGHT INFANTRY

There are a further 3 from WW2

ARUNDEL IA 3961939 16TH HD BN 25/06/1940 WELCH REGIMENT

GAVAN GF 4191306 4TH BN 29/09/1944 ROYAL WELCH FUSILIERS

PROBERT DC 1120841 12 HONOURABLE ARTILLERY COY REGT 10/04/1945 ROYAL HORSE ARTILLERY (that's what it says on CWGC!)

Alfred Pugh has Service Record, but from Wrexham

Edit: Ah!! There is a Memorial Cross for Pentrefelin, Carnarvonshire, (as caption) with 8 Names

T something Evans

G Hartless

William Jones

Robert Jones

J G? Owen

W J Parry

C Roberts

J Roberts

(can't be too sure of the initials due to magnification and weathering)....

The only Hartless is

Name: HARTLESS, GEOFFREY. Rank: Private

Service No: 232514. Date of Death: 14/05/1917.

Regiment/Service: London Regiment (Royal Fusiliers). 2nd/2nd Bn.

Panel Reference: Bay 9. Memorial: ARRAS MEMORIAL

The only W J Parry with an address in Carnarvon...

Name: PARRY, WILLIAM JOHN. Rank: Private

Service No: 266791. Date of Death: 22/07/1917. Age: 31

Regiment/Service: Royal Welsh Fusiliers. 1st Bn.

Grave Reference: II. I. 11. Cemetery: MORY ABBEY MILITARY CEMETERY, MORY

Additional Information: Son of Robert and Jane Parry, of 30, Dinorvic St., Carnarvon.

(That's the street address but Pentrefelin doesn't seem to have one of that name (and there don't seem to be that many!!)

[widavies]

Hi,

The 8 names on the memorial in Gwynedd are:-

T.M Evans

G. Hartless

Wm Jones

Rt Jones

J.G Owen,

W J Parry

E Roberts

J Roberts

Regards

[KevinBattle]

Hi, apologies for not including a warm welcome here!

You'll probably find researching in your library for the newspaper archives most rewarding to establish precisely who these chaps were. The Memorial seems to include street addresses, so that will help.

I found:-

Name: EVANS, THOMAS. Rank: Gunner.

Service No: W/4530. Date of Death: 24/04/1918. Age: 24.

Regiment/Service: Royal Field Artillery. "B" Bty. 121st Bde.

Grave Reference: XXIX. N. 2A. Cemetery: ETAPLES MILITARY CEMETERY

Additional Information: Son of Ellis M. and Jane Evans, of Ty Capel, Brynmelyn, Portmadoc, Carnarvonshire.

Name: OWEN, JOHN CADWALADR. Rank: Private (that's how his name is shown on CWGC)

Service No: 24913. Date of Death: 27/04/1918. Age: 21.

Regiment/Service: The Queen's (Royal West Surrey Regiment). 10th Bn.

Grave Reference: II. G. 22. Cemetery: YPRES TOWN CEMETERY EXTENSION

Additional Information: Son of Elizabeth Owen, of Braich y Saint, Criccieth, Carnarvonshire, and the late David Owen.

or is it

Name: OWEN, JOHN. Rank: Private.

Service No: 59698. Date of Death: 19/05/1918. Age: 26.

Regiment/Service: Royal Welsh Fusiliers. 17th Bn.

Grave Reference: II. N. 16. Cemetery: BOUZINCOURT RIDGE CEMETERY, ALBERT

Additional Information: Husband of Mary Owen, of 2, Parciau Bach, Criccieth, Carnarvonshire.

(TWO from Criccieth, so should BOTH be included, or which one and why?)

Lots of questions, but not so many answers!!

Name: ROBERTS, EDWARD. Rank: Private.

Service No: 53850. Date of Death: 20/05/1917. Age: 27.

Regiment/Service: Royal Welsh Fusiliers. 1st Bn.

Grave Reference: XXV. C. 14A. Cemetery: ETAPLES MILITARY CEMETERY

Additional Information: Son of Dora Roberts, of Clegyrog, Penmorfa, Portmadoc, Carnarvon.

Name: ROBERTS, JOHN. Rank: Third Engineer.

Date of Death: 07/01/1918. Age: 33.

Regiment/Service: Mercantile Marine. S.S. "Arab (Shanghai)

Panel Reference: Memorial: TOWER HILL MEMORIAL

Additional Information: Husband of Laura Roberts (nee Williams), of 19, New St., Portmadoc, Carnarvonshire. Born at Portmadoc.

yet no W G Owen with an address, however using Portmadoc there is...

Name: OWEN, WILLIAM JONES. Rank: Lance Corporal.

Service No: 21469. Date of Death: 09/07/1916. Age: 28.

Regiment/Service: Royal Welsh Fusiliers. 14th Bn.

Panel Reference: Pier and Face 4 A. Memorial: THIEPVAL MEMORIAL

Additional Information: Son of John and Ellen Owen, of 16, East Avenue, Portmadoc, Carnarvonshire; husband of Jemimah Jones Owen, of Isfryn, Bodffordd, Anglesey.

Now is he your WG Owen, or is there another without address details on CWGC database that is your man?

I'm afraid there may be other candidates where no Additional Information regarding parents or address is shown but who may be "your" men.

That's where you'll have to do some local digging to establish which of the Names on the CWGC database they are, then the super sleuths here will no doubt be able to tell you about when enlisted, medals, War Diary excerpts so that you may bring some semblance as to who they were back to your community.

[Hywyn]

These may be the two you already have

Robert Jones

http://www.cwgc.org/...8/JONES, ROBERT

JONES, ROBERT

Rank: Private Service No: 1242 Date of Death: 13/11/1918 Age: 26 Regiment/Service: Guards Machine Gun Regiment 5th Reserve Bn. Grave Reference South-East of Chapel. Cemetery PENTREFELIN (TABOR) CONGREGATIONAL CHAPELYARD

Additional Information:

Son of Evan and Mary Jones, of Brynhyfryd, Pentrefelin.

His papers are in the Pension section on Ancstry. Have you access?

Before enlisting he was a policeman with Carnarvonshire Constabulary. He is on their Memorial which was, last time I saw it, in the Court Building in Castle Ditch Caernarfon. I don't know if it has been removed to the new Court buildings on Llanberis Rd. I have a photo if you want it but it's not a good one as it was taken in a hurry due to the usher being a bit zealous in his interpretation of the rules re cameras.

William Jones

http://www.cwgc.org/...670859/JONES, W

JONES, W

Rank: Private Service No: 266267 Date of Death: 08/11/1920 Regiment/Service: Royal Welch Fusiliers 6th Garrison Bn. Grave Reference East of Chapel. Cemetery PENTREFELIN (TABOR) CONGREGATIONAL CHAPELYARD

Additional Information:

I'll do abit more digging on him if he's not one you are aware of.

If you are local to the area it may be worth having a look at the other graves in the cemetery (and other cemeteries in the area). You'll often find details of men commemorated on family graves albeit they aren't buried there.

Re Geoffrey Hartless in Kevins' post 5

SDGW has him as born Berrington, Shropshire

There is a Geoffrey Hartless born this place on the 1911 census as a servant at Wern, Portmadoc.

Hywyn

[Hywyn]

T M Evans

I can't quite make out the placename on the photo but it looks like Brynmelyn.

He is most likely therefore to be

http://www.cwgc.org/search-for-war-dead/casualty/500964/EVANS,%20THOMAS

EVANS, THOMAS

Rank: Gunner Service No: W/4530 Date of Death: 24/04/1918 Age: 24 Regiment/Service: Royal Field Artillery "B" Bty. 121st Bde. Grave Reference XXIX. N. 2A. Cemetery ETAPLES MILITARY CEMETERY

Additional Information:

Son of Ellis M. and Jane Evans, of Ty Capel, Brynmelyn, Portmadoc, Carnarvonshire.

This family are on the 1901 at Brynmelyn, Treflys parish.

SDGW has him born Treflys, enlisted Pwllheli (mangled as Trelys and Pwllhcli)

[Myrapoyser]

Thankyou so much for all the info .

Just to keep you all up to scratch. This IS the Pentrefelin between Criccieth and Porthmadog today I visited the Caernarfon Archives and found an article in the Jan 5th 1923 edition of the Carnarfon and Denbigh Herald the dedication of the War memorial. Have copied it to a PDF and taken photos of the graves of :-

Roberts Jones on which is written Robert Jones P.C. ANWYL FAB EVAN & MARY JONES BRYN HYFRYD PENTREFELIN A FU FARW TACHWEDD 13EC 1918 YN 26 MLWYDD OED. Plus an inscription. OS SIOM YDDEDD SYMUDIAD I WERYD Y GWROL CYMERIAD FY IOR O HWN I FAWRHAD DDAW I CODI'R HEDDGEIDWAD Which I am getting translated. So it looks like the fact he may have been a policeman could be right..

we think this is our Wm Jones of New Street William Jones, New Street

Rank: Private

Service number: 266267

Date of death: 8.11.1920

Royal Welsh Fusiliers 6th Garrison Bn

Buried at Pentrefelin (Tabor) Congregational Chapelyard

Grave Ref: E of Chapel

William Jones enlisted in the 6th Bn RWF (Caernarfon & Anglesey Territorial Force) on 05/10/1915 and received the number 3748. He was renumbered 266267 with effect from 01/03/1917 (the entire Territorial Force was renumbered). On 20/02/1918 he was discharged as no longer fit for war service according to AO265/17 Para 2.B.1. Army Order 265 did not, as far as I know, distinguish between wounds and sickness (King's Regulations 392 did) but only specifically excepted misconduct. He was entitled to the British War Medal and Victory Medal (List J/2/102B39 page 12897).

His service record has disappeared, so the following is based on informed guesswork:

He served with 6 RWF in Egypt and Palestine and was posted to the 6th Garrison Bn RWF in Egypt [?] due to wounds or sickness until finally discharged medically unfit, age 22.

There is a memorial to John Cadwalader Jones inscribed with the details about the 10th West surrey and buried at Ypres so he Is the correct one mentioned.

Our C Hartless is a bit of a problem though. We did find a Sarah Hartless had been baptised in 1899, daughter of Samuel and Jane Hartless address given as 7, Tenters Bank Pentrefelin but not sure where tenters bank is but looking into that. But why C Hartless should be staying at the Cross Keys (Then a Public House)with 8 letting rooms) is a mystery. The licencee in 1892 was Elizabeth Jones but no more records could be found so needs more research.

J Roberts is down as living at Tanyclogwyn which is on the road behind what was the old school in Pentrefelin . But as your record shows if it is him after he married he could have moved to Porthmadog

The school in Penmorfa proved to be the school attended by Edward Roberts and his siblings and although we found the log for Pentrefelin School no register survived.

Info given by local lady.

William John Parry is the more likely one. He was the brother of John Parry, one of whose daughters (Laura) lived at a house called Bryn Wern in Criccieth. The son of another of his daughters (Agnes) who is my first cousin (Agnes married my mother's brother) told me that Wil John had been killed in the first World War and that a brother of Agnes and Laura was called Wil John after the uncle. Griff also told me about a plaque or coin which he and his sister found when clearing their mother's house, inscribed William John Parry, which was obviously something to do with the war. He thinks they gave this plaque to the only current William Parry in the family - I'm trying to track him down to find more about it.

Griff remembers going to his grandparents' grave in Penmorfa when he was a child, and he's pretty certain most of the family worked on the Wern estate.

our T M Evans coud be right as heis parents listed as living at Ty Capel Brynmelin which is the house opposite the Chapelyard of Tarbor Chapel Pentrefelin but the chapel is no longer there just the chapelyard.

Phew!!

[Myrapoyser]

Is there a way of downloading pdf's and photo to this site?

[Myrapoyser]

While looking for the headstones in the chapelyard Pentrefelin I spotted a headstone of David John Jones who is not on the war memorial but who it seems died as a result of being onboard the SS North Cambria when it was in collision with another ship in the English Channel. on the 1st Aug 1918. Could he have been a RNVR?

[clive_hughes]

Re. David John Jones - the SS North Cambria (of London), regr. no. 125636, 3,577 gross tons and 11 years old was sailing from New York to La Pallice, near La Rochelle on the western seaboard of France. Her cargo was railway materials, and she had a crew of 35.

On 1 August 1918 she collided with the SS Port Stephens (of London) in the North Atlantic some 70-80 miles west of Ushant (off the westernmost tip of Brittany), with some 26 lives being lost.

A David John Jones of this ship and date isn't listed on the Tower Hill Memorial to the War missing of the Merchant Navy, which in any case is only for casualties arising from enemy action; but nor is he listed by CWGC under graves or memorials to the Royal Navy and its branches. So he wasn't in the RNVR, RN, RNR etc.

There are many such Merchant Seamen who died during the war period when their ships sank through storms, collisions and wreck; or who were individual victims of accidental drowning, sickness etc. Officially they have no commemoration, though they can sometimes appear on local war memorials and/or (as in this case) family headstones. The accident having occurred so far away and out to sea, it is most unlikely that his body - even if recovered - was brought home for burial, so that naming him on his family grave's headstone was all they could do by way of commemoration.

I have quite a few similar cases from Anglesey. What he might have had was the Mercantile Marine War Medal 1914-18 if his voyages had taken him through danger zones, but even then his next of kin had to apply for it. I note on the National Archives index that there is a medal card for the MMWM to a David John Jones born 1901 Carnarvonshire, but this might not be the same man. Would his age on the headstone tally with this?

Clive

[KevinBattle]

Are you really quite certain that the Memorial is C Hartless and not a worn "G" Hartless?

There is only the one G Hartless in CWGC which both I and Will. I (am) Davies have mentioned........

[Hywyn]

Roberts Jones on which is written Robert Jones P.C. ANWYL FAB EVAN & MARY JONES BRYN HYFRYD PENTREFELIN A FU FARW TACHWEDD 13EC 1918 YN 26 MLWYDD OED. Plus an inscription. OS SIOM YDDEDD SYMUDIAD I WERYD Y GWROL CYMERIAD FY IOR O HWN I FAWRHAD DDAW I CODI'R HEDDGEIDWAD Which I am getting translated. So it looks like the fact he may have been a policeman could be right..

The gravestone indicates he was a Policeman. His papers say he was a Policeman and the details for him on CWGC are replicated on the Carnarvon Contabulary Memeorial at Caernarfon.

Hywyn

[Hywyn]

William John Parry is the more likely one. He was the brother of John Parry, one of whose daughters (Laura) lived at a house called Bryn Wern in Criccieth. The son of another of his daughters (Agnes) who is my first cousin (Agnes married my mother's brother) told me that Wil John had been killed in the first World War and that a brother of Agnes and Laura was called Wil John after the uncle. Griff also told me about a plaque or coin which he and his sister found when clearing their mother's house, inscribed William John Parry, which was obviously something to do with the war. He thinks they gave this plaque to the only current William Parry in the family - I'm trying to track him down to find more about it.

Griff remembers going to his grandparents' grave in Penmorfa when he was a child, and he's pretty certain most of the family worked on the Wern estate.

The plaque or coin looks to be the memorial plaque. Google 'death penny' in Google Images for examples.

I'm not sure which one you are refering to now.

The one from Dinorwig Street, Caernarfon had a brother called David who was also a casualty. There is a substantial amount of documentation for this William John Parry, none of which suggests links to Pentrefelin.

A nearer one is this one:

The database Soldiers Died Great War has a Pte 34788 William Jones Parry, born Penmorfa, enlisted Holborn who was killed in action with 1st Bn RWF on 3/9/1916.

Here he is on CWGC

PARRY, WILLIAM JONES

Rank:Private

Service No:34788

Date of Death:03/09/1916

Regiment/Service:Royal Welsh Fusiliers

1st Bn.

Panel ReferencePier and Face 4 A.

MemorialTHIEPVAL MEMORIAL

His papers have survived. They state his father was William Parry, Brynkir Terrace, Penmorfa and that he had two sisters, Annie Williams and Mary Parry of same address. I have tracked the family back to 1881 census. No sign of a brother called John. Mary Ellen Parry, the sister, was a schoolteacher.

It's not uncommon for Jones to be used instead of John as a middle name.

Is there a separate Memorial for Penmorfa?

Hywyn

[Myrapoyser]

Thanks for that, all those details about Parry William Jones we have already it was another lady who didn't think we had the right one and I agree with you especially as he came from Penmorfa that he is the correct person .unfortunately there is no memorial there .

Re Robert Jones PC we are going to the new courthouse in Caernarfon to see and photograph the memorial you have mentioned.

[Myrapoyser]

Update on Pte Hartless

Am visiting Caernarfon archives to access the Wern Manor records for 1900-1915

Name: HARTLESS, GEOFFREY. Rank: Private

Service No: 232514. Date of Death: 14/05/1917.

Regiment/Service: London Regiment (Royal Fusiliers). 2nd/2nd Bn.

Panel Reference: Bay 9. Memorial: ARRAS MEMORIAL

The 1911 Census for Wern Manor shows Geoffrey Hartless, aged 15, as a servant, houseboy, Domestic, born Berrington, Salop. He is one of eight other servants listed under the care of William Jones, the Butler. His birth was registered Jul/Aug/Sept 1895, Atcham, Shropshire, Volume 6a. Further to his military details he enlisted at Deptford, and was awarded The Victory Medal and the British medal, Roll; TP2/101/13/2, Page 211.

He has a brother William John Hartless, who appears with other servants, on the 1911 census for Dockem House, Coates, Cirencester, the home of Isobel Shaw Levevre St John Mildmay. William, aged 16, is shown as a Hallboy, born Berrington, Shropshire. His birth is registered Apl/May/June 1894, Atcham, Shropshire, Volume: 6a.

William John, a Footman by trade, attested at Bristol, on 13 May 1915, in the Gloucester Regiment, and transferred to the Machine Gun Corp, as a Private Reg.No. 21295. His record is very hard to make out, however on 12.5.1919 he assembled at Newcastle upon Tyne, as part of a Russian Relief Force. Later he was in Bombay in 1920, and, as a Private, was subsequently discharged from the service as exemplary, on 12 July 1921, at Alexandra Palace N22, to Market?, Kineton, Warwickshire.

[Myrapoyser]

We are grateful for all the information on the names on the WW1 war memorial in Pentrefelin . This Sunday our research group will be remembering them 9am and laying a wreath in their honour.

During our research we came across a Belgian refugee family called De Vynck who settled in Pentrefelin Emile joined up to fight in WW1 and survived returning to the village after the war ended and was a well known sculptor and wood carver we have no details as to which regiment he served in ,can anyone help?

[clive_hughes]

Hi,

If you don't get any response regarding the Belgian refugees under this thread, try starting another one with them as the main topic - it would attract the attention of those with a Belgian interest faster!

Hwyl,

Clive

[Dewi Ensyl]

Hello,

I came across this thread as I was asked to trace the ancestry of people living in Cricieth who are related to William Jones who is remembered on the Memorial.

The wording states "William Jones New Street" .My research suggests that this relates to William Jones born 1884 at Llandecwyn,Meirionethshire.On the 1911 Census he is living at 3,New Street,Pentrefelin.His occupation was Bootmaker and repairer.His wife is Elizabeth Jones(nee Morris).Further research showed that William Jones enlisted in 1914 at Criccieth(only a few miles away from Pentrefelin).He enlisted with 1/6th Battalion of the RWF with number 334.In the list of casualties he is listed as follows."Cpl William Jones 334 1st/6th Battalion RWF died of wounds 20th Dec 1915 Aged 31.Husband of Elizabeth Jones of Penybryn,Penrhyndeudraeth,Meirionethshire.A 81.

He is buried at Chatby War Memorial Cemetery,Egypt.The family tell me that he is also remembered on the Llandecwyn Memorial.

There is another William Jones buried at Tabor Chapel,Pentrefelin(I do not know if the stones are still there as the building has been demolished.)

His headstone read as follows

"William ei fab/Hunodd hydref 8,1920/ yn 24ml oed/Yn filwr William aeth o'i fro/Draw i'r Aipht ymhell/ond adref i'w wlad ei hun/Cyn mynd i'r wlad sydd well

Roughly translated as

William his son/ died October 8,1920/aged 24 years/A soldier who left his parish/To far away Egypt/But came back to his own country/Before departing for a better place

He was the son of Owen Jones 25,Glanmorfa Terrace,Tremadoc(not sure if there is a memorial at Tremadog or Penmorfa.

Hope this helps.I will have a look for the Devynck link,

Hwyl am y tro

[Dewi Ensyl]

Whilst looking through my research notes I've also recorded the following which may relate to William J Parry.It was a headstone at Tabor Chapel(again I do not know if the stones have survived)

Er sechus gof am/Laura/Annwyl briod Griffith Parry,Garregfelin/Yr hon a fu farw Ebrill 3ydd 1909/Yn 55ml oed/Yr hon a allodd hon,hi a'i gwnaeth/Hefyd am yr uchod Griffith Parry/Yr hwn a fu farw Mai 8,1926/Yn 80 ml oed/Hefyd am ei annwyl fab/WILLIAM PARRY/a gollwyd ar faes y frwydr yn Ffrainc/Mai 28ain 1918 yn 27ml oed

Translates as: "William Parry lost on the battlefield in France/May 28th 1918 aged 27 years"

[Dewi Ensyl]

Sorry also found this relating to JC Owen also in Tabor Chapel graveyard,Pentrefelin

"John Cadwaladr/Yn y 10th Queens Royal West Surrey's/A laddwyd ar faes y frwydr/Yn Ffrainc/Ebrill 2 1918/Yn 21 mlwydd oed/Ac a gladdwyd yn y Communal Cemetery/Extension Merin Gate,Ypres"

Translates as"John Cadwaladr/Of the 10th Queens Royal West Surrey's/Killed on the battlefield/In France/April 2 1918/Aged 21 years/And buried in the Communal Cemetery/ Extension Merin Gate,Ypres"

He was the son of David William Owen and Elizabeth Owen of Braich y Saint,Criccieth

[Guest susiejam]

With reference to Geoffrey Hartless, if you are still looking for information, I think that there is a photograph of Geoffrey and his brother William in my loft. It would be difficult to find given the state of my loft but I am sure that this the correct Geoffrey, not that there could be that many people with that name. There is a Sunday School prize book with a name plate in Welsh so that would confirm the place.

[Myrapoyser]

I would like to thank all those people who helped with the research on the eight soldiers on the Pentrefelin WW1 memorial near Criccieth.

We have now produced with the help of a grant from the heritage lottery a bi-lingual booklet "The Forgotten Few" to be launched on Remembrance Sunday 9th November at 7pm in the Pentrefelin old school now a community center.

A remembrance service will be held at the memorial at 11am the same day.

Please feel free to come along to the launch and see what research has been done on our 8 brave soldiers

We feel proud to have been able to put faces to their names.