Some help please with 4 Ex - RWFofficers

[Simon Birch]

Good Morning.

The curator at the RWF is working on a project that details the service of pilots who had also served in the RWF.

Most of them we can find but four of which we can find only the barest of details. They are:

1. 2^nd Lt Gerald Ernest Morse. 2 Squadron. Ex 4^th RWF. Killed in an accident on 31/10/1917. (From Airmen died)
   
2. Captain Henry Sheriff Roberts. Believed 9 Squadron. Nothing in TSTB or Airmen died.
   
3. Captain John Towlson Morgan. 70 Squadron. 3/7^th Middlesex – 1 RWF. From Willesden. Airmen died says KIA 29/10/18.
   
4. Lieutenant Arthur Frederick Evans. 100 Squadron. 5 RWF. According to Airmen died KIA 30/10/18.
   

Although we have AIR 76 where they exist it is details of what happened to them that we are really after. We would be very grateful for any help / pointers that we can get!!

Thanks for your help & Best Wishes,

Simon

[Carmania]

Simon

These are H S Roberts' entries in the National Probate Calendar, the first was in 1917 the second in 1925:

Aled

[clive_hughes]

Only a couple of negative results Simon:

Morgan was not a serving officer with 1st RWF according to John Krijinen's list.

Evans' name does not appear on the bronze plaque listing casualties from 5th RWF, in St.Asaph Cathedral.

However, the list of Chester's war dead, in Chester Town Hall, inner panel 2, includes:

2/Lt. A Sheriff Roberts RWF

2/Lt. F Sheriff Roberts 9th RWF

Capt. H Sheriff Roberts 17th RWF

ROBERTS, HENRY SHERIFF

Rank: Captain

Date of Death: 27/08/1917

Age: 30

Regiment/Service: Royal Welsh Fusiliers 17th Bn. formerly 5th Bn.

Panel 63 to 65.

TYNE COT MEMORIAL

Additional Information:

Son of John Sheriff Roberts and Lydia Roberts, of The Gables, Curzon Park, Chester.

Clive

Edited 5 July , 2012 by LST_164

[IPT]

I've just seen that, sadly, three of the brothers were officers in the RWF and died in the war, They were Henry Sheriff Roberts, Alan Sheriff Roberts and Frederick Sheriff Roberts.

I see from a very old thread that BottsGreys had Henry in a group photo -

 

[mickdavis]

The only 9 Sqn Roberts that appears in my RE8 lising is:

A3441 SARD allotted to BEF 14.6.1917 and tested 15.6.1917 (Lt E.H. Lawford/Cpl Blake – ‘Test all OK’). 1 AD dd ex England 16.6.1917. 9 Sqn dd ex 1 AD 20.6.1917 and crashed from downwind turn after crosswind take-off on Practice Contact Patrol 28.6.1917 (Lt Cunningham/Lt Roberts both OK). 1 AD ex 9 Sqn 30.6.1917 and deleted.

[clive_hughes]

MICs:

2/Lieut. Alan Sheriff Roberts - To France April 1916 13th RWF. Killed July 1916. "His three deceased sons' medals" applied for by Col. J.Sheriff Roberts, the Gables, Curzon Park, Chester on 6.8.19 BWM/Vic. pair

Fred. Sheriff Roberts - same note re. application. Seems to have "Sgt. & Bombing Ins(tructor)" above 2/Lt. RWF rank. Killed 29.8.18. BWM/VIC pair, France (no date of entry unless it's the 26.6.19 underneath - which can't be right). Ancestry index him under the "NW Fus" (!)

Can't see Henry's MIC even using various permutations - maybe mis-indexed, or perhaps he wouldn't have had one if his medals were issued by the RAF?

Clive

[fetubi]

Hi Simon,

Here's the details for Capt Morgan:

D8201 Sopwith Camel 70Sqn -

left 10-20am to find crashed a'c stall spun in cr 10-30am at Sh36 B.22.c (Capt JT Morgan KIFA)

And I believe this is the man Evans:

C9728 HP O/400 100Sqn -

ftl cr LONGRES (Lt AF Evans KIFA/Lt JV McKenzie Can. inj/2Lt WB Warneford OK) 30/31st?

And you'll know this, but Morse's date is 1917 - not 2012!

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Trevor

[Simon Birch]

Trevor,

As always your input is invaluable and I thank you for it. You are also quiet right – being 95 years out cannot, even by my bumbling estimation be correct.

Clive – Regarding Roberts – I have had a look at 17^th RWF, 115 Brigade war diary. It mentions an unnamed officer being killed on 28/08/1917 (the day after the CWGC date) SDGW gives only 2 officers killed in 17 RWF at this time – one I can discount and the other appears to be Roberts, which would nearly match the CWGC date. So I suspect that Roberts was at least back with the 17^th by the time of his death.

The next step for the other is Hendon.

Many thanks to one and all!

Best Wishes,

Simon

[MarkTurner]

From the Eastern Daily Press November 22 1917:

THE LATE LIEUT G E MORSE - In reference to the sad death of Sec-Lieut Gerald E Morse (Royal Welsh Fusiliers), attached to the Royal Flying Corps, who was accidentally killed on service on October 31st, details have been received by his father (Mr Ernest Morse of Dell Side Eaton). The officer commanding says the deceased and other officers were engaged at a trench mortar practice when one of the rounds burst prematurely at the muzzle with fatal results. Lieut Morse, who was instructing and two others were killed. He adds "We have buried him in B______ cemetrey with other officers who have given their lives for their country. I cannot tell you the gap which his loss makes in the squadron. He was senior officer and one on whom a deal of instructional work devolved, which he has carried out in a most excellent manner. All the officers of the squadron feel his loss most keenly and offer their sincere sympathies." It may be added that the deceased was educated at King Edward VI Middle School and joined the Artists Rifles at the end of 1915. He was gazetted in September in the following year to the Royal Welsh Fusiliers and went to France in October, being transferred to the Royal Flying Corps last March.

Mark

[greg100]

I'm rather late to the party on this one (as always!!) but here's some gen on Evans for you: -

From AIR1/479/15/312/243: -

"Took off from Xaffevillers at 18:52 on the evening of the 30th/31st of October 1918 in H-P 0/400 C9726 tasked for operations against the steelworks at Burbach. Crashed (cause not known) killing Lt. Evans, and wounding his Observers Lt. J.V. McKenzie and 2nd Lt. W.E. Warneford. McKenzie suffered a broken arm in the crash."

Trevor, in his excellent "TSTB" 2015 edition, notes on p376 that they crashed at Longres. Trevor - I note you have a question mark against the date in the entry I've quoted - I can confirm that was the date they went missing, as per the TNA file reference above.

Interestingly, Evans isn't listed in the "Men of 100 Squadron" section of the "Annals of 100 Squadron", but his CWGC listing shows him as coming from Prescot in Lancashire. He was 32 at the time of his death. I suspect he had only recently arrived with 100 at the time of his death, as he doesn't appear in the Squadron Records before the night of the 18th/19th of October 1918.

Hope that adds a bit, all the best,

Greg

[fetubi]

Thanks for that confirmation of the date Greg - every bit helps!

Best Regards,

Trevor

PS And thank you for your mention of my book.

[greg100]

Afternoon Trevor - no probs on the date, I know only too well myself how those little snippets can help immeasurably!!

I believe that you also had some input into the C&C / RAF Museum publication "The Royal Aircraft Factory FE2b/d in RFC, RAF, RNAS, and ASC Service"? I'm currently writing the history of 100 Squadron and this book has also been of great assistance to me, as I'm sure you can imagine. There is some material in there, pertaining to 100, I'd like to know a little more about. Is there any chance you could drop me an email (greg@greg-harrison.co.uk) and I'll respond with a couple of enquiries, assuming you have the time to answer of course.

THanks and all the best,

Greg