Tom W. Posted 2 July , 2012 Share Posted 2 July , 2012 I thought he was Montenegrin, but the uniform is closer to Serbian or Bulgaian, and the cap badge looks Muslim, with a star and crescent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spconnolly007 Posted 2 July , 2012 Share Posted 2 July , 2012 Hi Tom, I reckon Turkish. Regards Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 3 July , 2012 Author Share Posted 3 July , 2012 Hi Tom, I reckon Turkish. Regards Sean The problem is that the headgear and uniform are all wrong for Turks, and he has a French rifle and gear. French colonial, from a Muslim Arab nation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spconnolly007 Posted 3 July , 2012 Share Posted 3 July , 2012 Algerian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 3 July , 2012 Share Posted 3 July , 2012 Most certainly not Turkish and yes, that does look like a Lebel bayonet. The key to unravelling this one might be the medal he is wearing - it is a cross pattee type (i.e., same shape as the German Iron Cross), over crossed (?)swords, and there seems to be four stars on the ribon. Trajan EDIT: I think I may have found the medal (but happy to be corrected). It could be the French Croix de Guerre, with the four stars being for individual citations at " corps, divisional, brigade or regimental level". Cf. attached photo, from G88gle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 3 July , 2012 Author Share Posted 3 July , 2012 Most certainly not Turkish and yes, that does look like a Lebel bayonet. The key to unravelling this one might be the medal he is wearing - it is a cross pattee type (i.e., same shape as the German Iron Cross), over crossed (?)swords, and there seems to be four stars on the ribon. Trajan EDIT: I think I may have found the medal (but happy to be corrected). It could be the French Croix de Guerre, with the four stars being for individual citations at " corps, divisional, brigade or regimental level". Cf. attached photo, from G88gle. I think you're right. The tunic looks French but has no collar numerals. I can't find any comprehensive online references describing the uniforms of the Arab troops. Everything's Senegalese. If I could find a photo of the the cap (chéchia in French) with the same basdge on the front, that would cinch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 3 July , 2012 Share Posted 3 July , 2012 Yes he is Algerian French Colonial. The cap was quite distinctive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 3 July , 2012 Share Posted 3 July , 2012 He is a Sergeant of either Zouaves or Tirailleurs (Algerien, Tunisien) circ 1917 through 1920's. I don't think there is enough to tell in photo if a Zouave or Tir. unless one is assuming ethnicity via the photo. Interesting in that he only has one Cartrigde box(???) Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 3 July , 2012 Author Share Posted 3 July , 2012 He is a Sergeant of either Zouaves or Tirailleurs (Algerien, Tunisien) circ 1917 through 1920's. I don't think there is enough to tell in photo if a Zouave or Tir. unless one is assuming ethnicity via the photo. Interesting in that he only has one Cartrigde box(???) Joe Sweeney Assault troops often wore only one cartridge pouch during missions that were expected to last a short time, suchas a trench raid to capture prisoners or identifiy the enemy unit opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGB Posted 3 July , 2012 Share Posted 3 July , 2012 French, has French rank on sleeve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 3 July , 2012 Author Share Posted 3 July , 2012 French, has French rank on sleeve. It's really unusual, in that he has no collar insignia. I wonder if French trench raiders removed their regimental or battalion numbers, the way the Germans did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 3 July , 2012 Share Posted 3 July , 2012 It's really unusual, in that he has no collar insignia. I wonder if French trench raiders removed their regimental or battalion numbers, the way the Germans did? Tom, Not wearing the collar insignia on the Tunic was not uncommon at all. Just thumbing through Mirouze's French Army 14-18 and and Lacarde's 3 Volume set "Zouaves et tirailleurs, les régiments de marche et les régiments mixtes : 1914-1918" shows 30% to 40% (Rough estimate) not wearing Collar insignia in group photos and even study photo's of Zouaves and Tir. In French service the Tunic (Vareuse) was not the primary piece of combat wear it was the capote and of secondary interest. Interesting set of full equipment---Haversack, Water bottle, Sac a Dos, belt cartridgre box (No Bayonet Scabbard seen). Croix de Guerre and fourragère. Bit of stretch to say a trench raider unless the context of the photo is known. The photo obviuosly came-out of book or printed matter (newspaper etc) what is the context? Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 3 July , 2012 Author Share Posted 3 July , 2012 Bit of stretch to say a trench raider unless the context of the photo is known. The photo obviuosly came-out of book or printed matter (newspaper etc) what is the context? A book, with no caption. No context whatsoever. Actually, the reduced equipment is typical for trench raiding. Fixed bayonet with no scabbard, haversack, water bottle, single cartridge pouch, no helmet. Also, the wrist watch--in this case a pocket watch in a special leather holder--was popular with trench raiders. I've never seen a French soldier without collar insignia. This guy also has dark piping on his collar top, which is not typically French. That's why I thought he was from a Balkan nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 4 July , 2012 Share Posted 4 July , 2012 To bad on the no caption. Here is a typical photo from the previously mentioned books (Mirouze in this case). This is a group of 4th RMZ Chauchat gunners. Almost none have collar insignia and again this is typical. Piping on the colar is not typical French, in this instance. Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom W. Posted 4 July , 2012 Author Share Posted 4 July , 2012 To bad on the no caption. Here is a typical photo from the previously mentioned books (Mirouze in this case). This is a group of 4th RMZ Chauchat gunners. Almost none have collar insignia and again this is typical. Piping on the colar is not typical French, in this instance. Joe Sweeney Does "RMZ" stand for "Régiment Mixte Zouaves" or "Régiment de Marche Zouaves"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 4 July , 2012 Share Posted 4 July , 2012 Tom, RMZ is Régiment de Marche Zouaves. RMZT is Régiment Mixte Zouaves et Tirailleurs Techincally, no actual Regiment of Zouaves or Tir actually took the field, instead they formed Marche Regiments. A Marche Regiment could and as the war progressed likely be made up of Battalions from different actual Regiments (this particularly true of the RMT). The numbers worn on the collars were for the Marche Regiment and not the parent Regiment. Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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