Can someone tell the difference between these 2 uniforms

[higrader]

Hello

Can anyone tell me what the difference is in these two uniforms?

They are both Winnipeg Cameron Highlanders unitforms as that is the only outrfit my grandfather belonged to during WWI

Also, if anyone can guess as to where these pictureswere taken would be appreciated.

thanks

Denis

[4thGordons]

Denis

I would gues that the picture on the left is the earlier picture. He is wearing spats/gaiters and a sporran and his waist belt is a pre-war canadian pattern.

The picture on the right shows that the spats have been replaced by puttees and the glengarry replaced by a Tam. He is also wearing a unit identification patch on the shoulder of his jacket, these were not generally worn until later in the war.

If you have the two photos as opposed to just the images - have a look on the back - if they have any photographer identified I would not be suprised to see that the first one was taken in Canada and the second one taken in France.

My best guess would be that the left hand photo was taken in 1914 (or earlier - possibly at a pre war camp given the nature of the backdrop used) and the second one from 1916 on, probably in theatre.

Chris

[Joe Sweeney]

I would follow Chris with a slightly different time-line.

The belt on the left hand photo is a Pattern 1916 Dismounted belt so no earlier than that.

The right hand photo is showing him as a member of the 43rd Bn CEF (Cameron Highlanders).

What is his full name?

The uniform on the left is a hard one. To me it looks like it might be a 48th Canadian. Both units had similar Sporrans and badges-but the Camerons had a big X in the center and the 48th a 48 with a birdshead overhead.

The Camerons--79th Miltia and its dirivates wore a plain Glen (although very early 43rd are seen in Diced Glen's)

The colar badges look 48th to me.

Joe Sweeney

[higrader]

hi guys, thanks for the responses

Chris

now that you mentioned France, I can see that the first word written on the back of the left photo which was ineligeable, now I see it says paris not capitalized. I don't know which is oldest, but seeing as he was tos by the 43rd btn and that he, i'm assuming, never had a kilt before joining the 43rd, then these pictures were taken between Aug 26, 1918, the day he joined the 43rd and the end of the war. He was shipped across the channel on August 23rd. and I have this other picture which I think would have been the uniform he wore before being taken by the 43rd. I'll post it later as I have no clue as to its origin also.

Joe

you got good eyes to tell he was with thr 43rd, and your mentioning his belt is important to me because, my grandfather drowned on a moose hunting trip in 1940 and all three in the party were never found. Whenever he went hunting he always wore his army belt and one day, that buckle will show up somewhere, and I'm anticipating getting a good picture of the buckle for identification.

His enlisted name was Earl St John 3233126 and he enlisted with the Central Ontario Depot in Toronto.

Now the picture on the left has a standard double buckle. The one on the right has what looks like a sideways "S" buckle attached to two rounded rectangles, but there also appears to be a badge/buckle just under his jacket. The rear of the right photograph says "cochrane" and has his name. It's a Canadian Post Card dated 1919, so I'm assuming this picture was taken on his arrival back home.

Now, could he have had a second belt on, holding the kilt up and might it have had a badge on it also?

I would have never guessed the first picture to be taken in Paris, as there is no mention or record of him being there.

Denis

[Joe Sweeney]

Denis,

Did you order his Service recors from the archives?

I'm convinced that the uniform on the left is not 43rd or any Bn associated with the Cameron's.

What is odd is usually the Manitoba Reg't supplied replacements to the 43rd and not the 2nd Depot Bn 1st CO Re't although sometimes intent and actuality are two different things.

The 15th Bn was associated to 2nd Depot Bn 1st Central Ontario in the replacement supply change. The 15th was the CEF Bn of the 48th (militia) in France and wore the 48th insignia.

To me it looks like he went from the 2nd DB 1st CO Reg't in Canada to the 12th Reserve Bn in England--that is where he recieved 48th uniform and that is where the picture was taken-The Paris mark on the back probably only identifies the source of the photo paper.

The 12th Res supplied drafts to the 15th Bn in France. However, I believe he was diverted to the 43rd once in France.

The belt he is wearing in the 43rd Photo is a British P14 leather belt. The belt just visible under his jacket might be a German Belt and buckle which were popular to wear.

Hope this helps

Joe Sweeney

[servicepub]

Formation badges only came into use in mid-1916 and the 5-button tunic would rule out a photo taken in Canada (except upon his return). I agree that the photo on the left is early as he wears the spats and sporran. At a guess I would have said Aldershot or some other CEF camp. When you said 'Paris' I thoght of Paris, Ontario but that wouldn't fit with the tunic so Joe's comment that the name represents the paper supplier is most likely. The photo on the right is typical of a Canadian soldier later in the war. He wears a Tam instead of a glengarry, no sporran, formation patches, 5-button tunic and puttees in lieu of spats.

Clive

[higrader]

Ok

Picture on left was taken at a shop and the uniform is borrowed.

Would the picture on the right and the belt buckle be what he came home with?

I also have this Post Card of him, and it's blank on the back but printed "Made in Canada"

any ideas about this one? Thanks again for the help.

Oh, and yes I did get his records from Defence