Terry Carter Posted 14 August , 2004 Share Posted 14 August , 2004 Hello again Following my previous thread. The following is taken from the same 20th Division report on the taking of Guillemont. The Div gen who wrote the report has made reference to shelling the German lines with 'Lethel'. Could someone explain what that might mean. Would it be some type of gas shell ? Regards Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 14 August , 2004 Share Posted 14 August , 2004 I am in today's "lethal" business. We talk of lethal dosages in the chemical and biological warfare business. Most probably "gassing" is meant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 14 August , 2004 Share Posted 14 August , 2004 I would agree with Egbert that it might be gas; may well be Livens Projectors, which were being used about this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbarchetta Posted 15 August , 2004 Share Posted 15 August , 2004 Sorry to throw a spanner in the works, but Egbert is refering to 'lethal doses', i.e. how much it takes to kill someone. The reference in the question is 'Lethel', not lethal. The fact that it has a capital L suggests this is a manufacturer/place of manufacture. I'm afraid I have no idea what it means, just didn't want us to continue down an obviously incorrect path !! Thanks Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 16 August , 2004 Share Posted 16 August , 2004 Googling for the word "lethel" produced more than 2,800 and apart from a few exceptions it was clear that this "lethel" was just an error for "lethal". So maybe "Lethel" in the 20th Division report was an error too ? Maybe the word was not really very common at the time, nor the correct spelling, or to the person who drew up the report (which might be indicated by the inverted commas that were used) ? According to my dictionary a "lethal chamber" is a chamber in which sick animals may be put to death painlessly. And as far as I know this probably happens (happened) with gas. So ... Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 16 August , 2004 Share Posted 16 August , 2004 Aurel , you are right. I did exactly the same surfing and searching. My conclusuion= type error and my earlier thread still valid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbarchetta Posted 16 August , 2004 Share Posted 16 August , 2004 But ALL shells are lethal, it's kind of the whole idea - why would this report "state the bleedin' obvious" ??! That would be like saying you were wearing "put on your head" hats...! I accept a Google search only brings up typo's for 'lethal', but it is not unheard of for Google to not have all the answers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 16 August , 2004 Share Posted 16 August , 2004 Jim, I was just pointing out that to me it seems that though "lethal" now just means "deadly", at the time it might have had a secondary meaning "by gas". But English is not my mother tongue. But of course you could be right, and "Lethel" could be the name of a manufacturer, or the place of manufacturing, who knows. (I didn't check all the "Lethel" finds in Google. There were far too many.) Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 16 August , 2004 Share Posted 16 August , 2004 I tend to go along the Aurel line. I was surprised to see how often, on google, the word was misspelt LETHEL. Since it was fired by howitzers, it doesn`t look like Livens ware. Is it possible that gas shells at that stage of the war were referred to as "lethal shells" to disguise their content, in the same way as armored vehicles were called "tanks"? Phil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burlington Posted 16 August , 2004 Share Posted 16 August , 2004 (I didn't check all the "Lethel" finds in Google. There were far too many.) I did!! Nothing significant except a load of rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbarchetta Posted 16 August , 2004 Share Posted 16 August , 2004 Ah, now Phil may have it, maybe they simply referred to gas shells as 'lethals' - along the lines of 'coal boxes' and 'Jack Johnsons'. Can't say I've come across it before, but I must admit is has a ring of truth. A gracious back down is called for, methinks...! Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacky Platteeuw Posted 17 August , 2004 Share Posted 17 August , 2004 I don't find the reference anymore but very sure that, certainly at some point of the War, the Brits referred to gas as 'accessories'. Jacky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KF Kelly Posted 17 August , 2004 Share Posted 17 August , 2004 In Goodbye To all That, Robert Graves describes the use of 'the accessory' in the attacks on Les Briques Farm, Auchy and Haisnes in September 1915. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMoorhouse Posted 21 August , 2004 Share Posted 21 August , 2004 My guess is that this is a type of gas shell. Inglefields History of the 20th Division has an interesting passage; "At 8.30 the whole of the 6th and 24th Divisional Artilleries concentrated an intense fire on an area on the north-east of Guillemont known as the "trap" area, which had purposely not been shelled before, while howitzers opened with gas shell" The whole passage seems to be too similar to the report to be a coincidence. Brendon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnreed Posted 21 August , 2004 Share Posted 21 August , 2004 We would call that today "Killing Zone" John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbarchetta Posted 21 August , 2004 Share Posted 21 August , 2004 I think Brendan has clinched it with that quote, good job, MID etc etc Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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