shippingsteel Posted 21 June , 2012 Share Posted 21 June , 2012 Been doing some more internet research into the wide variety of 'second-line' or obsolescent weaponry that was being put to use in African campaigns during the war. That brought me across an interesting group of photographs that provide some good documentation of what the Schutztruppe (von Lettow-Vorbeck's mob) were using. The quality of the photos is outstanding (especially when you consider the period and the location) and you will not see much clearer shots of period weapons anywhere. So the first photo shows a group of Askari performing some routine maintenance on their rifles. Looks well organised and does help explain the German success in GEA. Its a very interesting rifle for the period and this particular photo lets you see it from all angles.! Would anyone like to take a stab at the identification (check that muzzle).? Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushfighter Posted 22 June , 2012 Share Posted 22 June , 2012 Shippers Greetings The photos have been made available on the internet by the German archives. If it helps, these men are policemen as opposed to Schutztruppe Askari. Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 22 June , 2012 Author Share Posted 22 June , 2012 If it helps, these men are policemen as opposed to Schutztruppe Askari. Thanks for the correction Harry - do you have any further information on these photos ie. can you confirm exact date and location etc. All I saw was the caption ... I did notice it mentioned Policeman but to tell the truth I wasn't totally sure. They did seem a little well trained and prepared for aggressive action to be Policemen.! I do know the same rifle was being used by the Askari at the time, and there are further photos that show this, so I was kind of leading into that association there. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 22 June , 2012 Author Share Posted 22 June , 2012 Here is another photo of these guys undergoing training - they are certainly well trained and certainly under German instruction. (BTW using same rifle) I am not exactly certain of the dates, which makes me wonder if the pre-war "policemen" may have actually become the wartime 'Schutztruppen' Askari.? EDIT. Indeed I have just found this quote on the net from another WW1 forum, which may help explain the relationship between these 'policemen' and 'askari'. "The German colonial troops, the Schutztruppen, were equipped and trained only for internal policing duties, but Lettow-Vorbeck aimed to contribute to the main struggle in the event of war in Europe, by drawing British forces away from their principal theatres and sought battle rather than shunned it." Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 22 June , 2012 Author Share Posted 22 June , 2012 More training happening - they sure went to a lot of trouble to ensure the 'would be' marksmen was comfortable. Not much room left for excuses here.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 22 June , 2012 Share Posted 22 June , 2012 The rifles based on the first photograph appear to be 1871 Mausers. Note the curved trigger guard and the lack of a tubular magazine as with the 71/84. Also large amounts of smoke suggests black powder 11mm cartridges. The bayonet is likely to be the model 71/84 and I think the ammo pouches are M1883. Nice photographs, regards khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 22 June , 2012 Author Share Posted 22 June , 2012 The rifles based on the first photograph appear to be 1871 Mausers. Note the curved trigger guard and the lack of a tubular magazine as with the 71/84. Also large amounts of smoke suggests black powder 11mm cartridges. The bayonet is likely to be the model 71/84 and I think the ammo pouches are M1883. Yes the rifles shown are the Mauser M1871 "Jaeger" version, which are considerably shorter and more compact than the original long rifle - ideal for Africa. They were calibred in the 11 x 60mm blackpowder cartridge, producing plenty of smoke as you can see. The bayonets do appear to be the S71/84 version. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 22 June , 2012 Author Share Posted 22 June , 2012 And it wasn't just the native Askari troops that were issued these weapons - the white Colonial troops were using them as well, as shown here. More marksmanship training - note the left handed shooting technique (possibly a self-taught local recruit) and the size of those huge cartridges.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 23 June , 2012 Author Share Posted 23 June , 2012 These next photos make for an interesting comparison - here is an Askari scout posing for a photo with his M1871 "Jaeger" Rifle. Especially note the condition of his uniform, in tidy shape with puttees and boots in good order ... probably an early wartime shot. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 23 June , 2012 Author Share Posted 23 June , 2012 And then we see a later photo of these men after a number of years traipsing around the bush and jungle, skirmishing with the British forces. With a very shoddy appearance, showing uniforms torn and bedraggled, boots worn and missing, still carrying the same trusty Mauser rifles. The notable exception being the man on the left (apparently an NCO) who appears to have souvenired a SMLE rifle somewhere in his travels. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 23 June , 2012 Share Posted 23 June , 2012 ...... Aaaah,the six-man special sniping squad... One specialist sniper with four back-ups to carry the snipers 'nest' into position and one NCO to supervise... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 23 June , 2012 Share Posted 23 June , 2012 Hello S>S, In post # 9 the soldier/policeman pointing etc, is that 'bandsman' swallow tails on the shoulder of his uniform, or am I looking at something else? regards khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scalyback Posted 23 June , 2012 Share Posted 23 June , 2012 And it wasn't just the native Askari troops that were issued these weapons - the white Colonial troops were using them as well, as shown here. More marksmanship training - note the left handed shooting technique (possibly a self-taught local recruit) and the size of those huge cartridges.! Cheers, S>S Bolt action. easy to fire for a left hander(other threads on lee-enfield about this). Only in recent Uk time has left handed fire been stopped due to the SA-80 and family of weapons. So not "self taught" but using his eye dominance correctly. noting to do with left or right handed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 23 June , 2012 Share Posted 23 June , 2012 Hello S>S, In post # 9 the soldier/policeman pointing etc, is that 'bandsman' swallow tails on the shoulder of his uniform, or am I looking at something else? regards khaki khaki, You are perfectly correct, he is wearing German style Bandsman's swallow tails, perhaps rather than being a Scout, he is actually looking for the rest of his band ? Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 23 June , 2012 Share Posted 23 June , 2012 The term ' Askari ' is not just related to German formations of African native soldiers and Policemen, it is a generic term taken from the Arabic word for ' soldier '. The Belgians had Askaris ( Force Publique ) and the British also had Askaris ( the East African Rifles and later the Kings African Rifles ), as did other Colonial African Nations. Attached is a photograph from the National Army Museum Archive, captioned " Askaris ( British ) moving a Field Gun 1914 ". LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 23 June , 2012 Share Posted 23 June , 2012 If it helps, these men are policemen as opposed to Schutztruppe Askari. Harry Harry, is your ' Bushfighter ' photograph, by coincidence the Askari Monument ? Also, thank you for setting the record right regarding the Policeman. I have noticed that in images of the German Polizeiaskaris and Polizeitruppe, they are wearing an arm badge with a large " P ", as also shown in post # 1. At the risk of this sounding a possibly obvious observation, does the large " P " stand for Polizei ? Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 23 June , 2012 Author Share Posted 23 June , 2012 Thanks for all the input - feel free to add what you can. These photos came out of the German archives with very little information attached, but with loads of detail. I'm not totally sure of any of the activities shown and am just adding a description to go with the photo - my interest is predominantly with the weapons they're using. Here is another shot of an Askari Machine Gun detachment under the command of a German officer. As can be seen they have been issued with the Kar.88 carbine. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaki Posted 24 June , 2012 Share Posted 24 June , 2012 Hello S>S, In post # 9 the soldier/policeman pointing etc, is that 'bandsman' swallow tails on the shoulder of his uniform, or am I looking at something else? regards khaki Sorry, not swallow tails, I meant to say swallow nests, they weren't in formal evening dress. khaki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bushfighter Posted 24 June , 2012 Share Posted 24 June , 2012 Yes,I guess that the P is for police, a large number of whom became infantry soldiers in August 1914. Yes it is the Dar Es Salaam Askari Memorial - a beautiful sculpture. Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 24 June , 2012 Author Share Posted 24 June , 2012 Here is some more information on how to distinguish between photos of the Polizeitruppe and the regular Shutztruppen Askari. See page linked HERE "The askaris are wearing standard uniform for the East African Polizeitruppe of this period. They wore the same khaki tarbush and uniform with blue-grey puttees and brown leather boots and equipment as the Schutztruppe askaris, but were distinguished by a white oval patch with a red letter P worn on the upper left arm, and a noticeably larger eagle worn on the front of the tarbush headdress made of yellow metal rather than the Schutztruppe's white metal." The above description corresponds with the photo of the sentry shown in Post #7, who we can now safely say is a member of the East African Polizeitruppe. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 24 June , 2012 Share Posted 24 June , 2012 "The askaris are wearing standard uniform for the East African Polizeitruppe of this period. They wore the same khaki tarbush and uniform with blue-grey puttees and brown leather boots and equipment as the Schutztruppe askaris, but were distinguished by a white oval patch with a red letter P worn on the upper left arm, and a noticeably larger eagle worn on the front of the tarbush headdress made of yellow metal rather than the Schutztruppe's white metal." Cheers, S>S Excellent photograph with good clear descriptions. LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 24 June , 2012 Share Posted 24 June , 2012 Some more images of German Askari military and Police uniforms. Back top left, we can see a Polizeitruppe, with the large " P " on the arm badge, and the large headdress eagle as in shipping steel's informative post #20. LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 24 June , 2012 Author Share Posted 24 June , 2012 Here is another cracker photo of the Askari in full colour ... (what a fantastic quality photo for the period) Good view of the bayonets also. Note the smaller size eagles on the headwear as described above, and that red shoulder-band seems to be correct insignia for a Bugler. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 24 June , 2012 Author Share Posted 24 June , 2012 And another shot of a German artillery crew with their Askari support - not such a good image but we can still see their issue carbines. Bit of a pattern developing with the artillery units carrying the carbines, as opposed to the regular infantry using the Mauser Jaeger rifles. In this case it looks to be the Kar.71 on show, which is incredible when you consider it must have been approaching 40 years in service.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 25 June , 2012 Author Share Posted 25 June , 2012 This is a much poorer quality image which is easily explained as it was taken from the other side. The German photographic expertise was excellent.! This picture from PEA shows a Portuguese machine-gun emplacement in a frontline position in the north, which bordered the southern portion of GEA. The Portuguese offered some resistance to the aggressive activities of the Schutztruppen, but were usually outdone by the well organised German troops. They were also not well equipped, with this photo showing them to be still armed with the M1886 Kropatschek rifle (identified by shape of muzzle/nosecap) Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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