Hudson whistles (again)

[Peter Doyle]

Like many of us, I have picked up Hudson whistles dated to the war years, and pleased I am too with them. But I have never been able to answer the question - did officers only use the 'Metropolitan-type Police' whistle (pea-less), or did they use the pea-provided, referee 'Acme thunderer' too - according to preference. Myths I have heard over the years are that the former type are for officers, the latter for NCOs - but I can't see it myself.

Anyone have a view?

Best wishes

Peter

[Khaki]

Hi Peter, I think that the 'metropolitan' was the official standard, and if I remember correctly, wasn't there a whistle pouch that fitted the cross strap on the S.B sword belt? I have seen the acme whistle types with US markings made in England. In my opinion the Hudson was the more practical whistle for active service and would be hard to put 'out of action' and easily cleared if clogged, whereas the style with pea could be a problem in adverse conditions.

khaki

[Lancashire Fusilier]

if I remember correctly, wasn't there a whistle pouch that fitted the cross strap on the S.B sword belt?

khaki

khaki,

Yes, you are correct, here is a photograph of my Lancashire Fusilers Captain's cuff rank uniform with the whistle pouch as part of the Sam Brown cross strap. This particular whistle being attached to a braided leather cord also attached to the Sam Brown cross strap, which is unusual.

I have another where there is a pouch attached to the cross strap but the whistle cord goes around the officer's neck, and another Gloucestershire Regiment cuff rank where the whistle hangs from a leather strap attached to the breast pocket.

Regards,

LF

[Lancashire Fusilier]

Peter,

I remember a scene from an old film starring Kirk Douglas, playing a WW1 French officer, and he used a referee pea type whistle, which he kept in his mouth and blew the whole time they were going ' over the top ' and advancing, keeping both his hands free, one holding his revolver, something you could not easily do with the Metropolitan type whistle.

I know that was film land, but perhaps the referee type whistles were used ?

Regards,

LF

[Peter Doyle]

Thanks Guys

I am aware of the leather attachments for the 'Metropolitan' type, and it makes sense that this was the standard type. However, given the fact that officers purchased their own kit, there must have been latitude. The whistle illustrated, with it's leather attachment fob, must surely have been one of the options.

Cheers

Peter

[Peter Doyle]

here's a better image, apologies

P

[PhilB]

What you say makes sense, Peter, but I thought that the football type escargot whistle was for artillerymen, while the infantry used the Metropolitan type. The escargot doesn`t look as if it would easily fit into breast pocket or pouch - does anyone have a photo of an infantryman with an escargot?

[Peter Doyle]

Thanks Phil - what I'm trying to get the bottom of is whether this type of whistle was associated with a specific group (like artillerymen -not heard that one), ranks (NCO's have been mentioned to me, but I'm dubious), or wether it was a matter of personal taste. Always a difficult one to fathom!

Cheers

Peter

[Khaki]

I searched hundreds of photographs and found not one that even showed a whistle, plenty of cords etc, the only variation I saw was military police wearing whistle chains. I know that this is not 'the point' of Peter's question but the answer, if one exists, probably will be found in documentation ie orders. As for artillery being different, that may be correct, but I doubt that with line infantry there would be any latitude for officers in choosing the style of whistle required, mainly because as a signal device it had to be of distinct and recognisable sound to all to avoid confusion. After all the enemy used whistles as well.

khaki

[Andrew Upton]

http://postimage.org/image/yabhtnx5j/

[Lancashire Fusilier]

The Thunderer whistle.

[Lancashire Fusilier]

It would seem that the snail/pea whistle was used universally by the U.S. during WW1, rather than the Metropolitan type whistle, and interestingly many of the U.S. examples I have seen, were made in England.

I did encounter this 1916 dated Hudson snail/pea whistle, unfortunately, although it is described as a British WW1 Military Trench Whistle, it has no military markings.

LF

[Khaki]

It just occurred to me that an answer may be found in the commercial newspaper advertising for officers equipment/uniforms that was a regular feature of the Great War,I don't know if Hudsons ran newspaper advertisement's but it may be worth a look.

khaki

[Joe Sweeney]

Peter,

Not sure of this applies to Officers but by the Priced Vocabulary of Stores-1909 and 1915.

The Snail/pea is specifically called the -Artillery Whistle.

The Police Whistle is specifically designated for the Infantry.

The Police Whistle with Finger Ring is for mounted.

Joe Sweeney

[Peter Doyle]

Superb, thanks gentlemen. I have my answer - that the snail/pea/thunderer type is for artillerymen.

Thanks to all who have contributed.

Best wishes

Peter

[Wardog]

I've seen info on whistles in The Armourer recently. Regards, Paul.

Issue 110 March/April 2012, page 53-58. By John Bodsworth.

[Wardog]

I expect NCOs could be issued them and officers buy their own. Most WWI dated infantry type whistles I have seen have not had a Government Property arrow but some do- the ones issued to Other Ranks? Regards, Paul.

[auchonvillerssomme]

The Hudsons weren't patented until 1885, so will be later than that. I wonder if the whstle mentioned was the Beaufort type. I would be interested if anyone has any training manuals that mention the use of whistles.

[Wardog]

The Armourer Magazine has the MkIV infantry whistle as LoC 9538 -1899- the type used through the war by De Courcy and Hudson. Regards, Paul.

[auchonvillerssomme]

I have now gone through the box I showed at post 14 here http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=168520&hl=%2Bhudson+%2Bwhistles the collection has reached over 100 and I am considering how best to display them. As an aside the 2 relic whistles I have, both found around Beaumont Hamel, neither are military marked.

[PhilB]

I think we may conclude that a whistle of the correct pattern may (or may not) be military issue even if it does not have the ordnance arrow. Is it safe to assume that a WW1 whistle with the arrow was military issue?

[PhilB]

Superb, thanks gentlemen. I have my answer - that the snail/pea/thunderer type is for artillerymen.

Peter

That seems to have been (& still is) the case. One can understand cavalry needing a finger ring but can anyone explain why artillerymen might require a different type of whistle to infantrymen?

[Lancashire Fusilier]

That seems to have been (& still is) the case. One can understand cavalry needing a finger ring but can anyone explain why artillerymen might require a different type of whistle to infantrymen?

Phil,

From what I understand, Artillery officers used their whistle mainly to warn of a gun about to be fired, so that those close by were warned to stand clear.

With the two distinctly different sounds being made by each whistle type, that probably avoided any confusion as to the signal being given by that particular officer, be they Infantry or Artillery.

Regards,

LF

[Khaki]

khaki,

Yes, you are correct, here is a photograph of my Lancashire Fusiliers Captain's cuff rank uniform with the whistle pouch as part of the Sam Brown cross strap. This particular whistle being attached to a braided leather cord also attached to the Sam Brown cross strap, which is unusual.

I have another where there is a pouch attached to the cross strap but the whistle cord goes around the officer's neck, and another Gloucestershire Regiment cuff rank where the whistle hangs from a leather strap attached to the breast pocket.

Regards,

LF

Hello LF,

Would it be possible for you to let us know how the braided leather whistle strap is actually attached to the cross strap, ie., is it sewn directly to the strap or otherwise attached?

regards

khaki

[derekspiers]

My RGA grandfathers snail pea whistle is somewhere in my house! It's the only tangible thing we have about him apart from his Medals This thread has prompted me to go and try to find it !