Help with Identifying Uniforms please - pill box hat

[chelleyp]

Hi - I am needing some help identifying these men and I hope that the uniforms may be able to help me in that endeavour.

This first pic has me stumped - is it even WWI?

This one I think is Angus Alexander McGregor born NSW 1874.

And this one I think is Angus' father but narrowing down the war would be helpful.

I know some of the McGregor boys served in the Australian Army but one was also in the 29th Battalion of the CEF.

Many thanks for any help you may be able to give me with regards to the uniforms.

[centurion]

The first photo is much earlier than WW1. Pill box hats were introduced sometime in the 1860s (there is a photo of the 101st in India wearing them) and persisted until about 1900. From the way it is being worn a guess might be a cavalryman

[Muerrisch]

Third man has, I think, a Military Medal, instituted in Great War, but not the British War Medal or Victory so probably photo taken before 1919.

[4thGordons]

Second man is indeed in an Australian jacket. Uniform consistent with WWI but the same basic style continued afterwards.

Chris

[centurion]

Third man has, I think, a Military Medal, instituted in Great War, but not the British War Medal or Victory so probably photo taken before 1919.

If he is "Angus's father" then he'd be in his 60s when WW1 broke out so either that isn't him or it isn't an MM

[chelleyp]

Thanks so much for all the replies .

OK - so could the 3rd uniform be C.E.F? David McGregor (Angus' brother) has a DOB of 1857 so could that be him? I know one McGregor did indeed receive a Military Medal - were they awarded by the CEF?

[Khaki]

The third man, MM., appears to be wearing a Canadian cap badge, (maple leaf shape?) probably the 29th Vancouver Battalion (Tobin's Tigers) served Western Front from 1915.

khaki

[chelleyp]

Thanks khaki - will check the original pic tomorrow re maple leaf.

[centurion]

The third man, MM., appears to be wearing a Canadian cap badge, (maple leaf shape?) probably the 29th Vancouver Battalion (Tobin's Tigers) served Western Front from 1915.

khaki

But that would make David at least 58 - a tad old to be on active service and winning an MM, although the guy in the photo is no spring chicken I wouldn't think he'd be that old.

[Khaki]

This one I think is Angus Alexander McGregor born NSW 1874.

And this one I think is Angus' father but narrowing down the war would be helpful .As chelleyp is not certain about relationship or identity, I only concerned myself with the badge details, you are correct that the nominated age and relationship would probably exclude active service, however as confirmed identity is not available I chose to disregard family questions, as quite often information about relationship and dates of birth can be mistaken.

khaki

[centurion]

Khaki - can you explain - didn't understand that last post at all?

[Khaki]

Sorry, the quote somehow merged with the response and the edit made it worse, in simple terms I

attempted to identify the badge, the other issues of age and possible relationship I have ignored.

regards

khaki

[chelleyp]

Here are a couple more pics of the 3rd man - and yes it is definitely a maple leaf. Thanks.

[chelleyp]

Thanks everyone for your help - just found him on the CEF database - he lied about his DOB - enlisted with DOB of 1871 !!! Must have been a fit bloke for his age.

He did get a MM too.

Name:

McGregor, D.

Rank:

Private

Regimental or Service Number:

628980

Medal/Honour/Award:

MM - Military Medal

Event/Time Period:

1900-1969

Volume:

44

Reference / Accession Number:

2004-01505-5

[Stoppage Drill]

Chelley - proper name of the pillbox is Kilmarnock Cap. Still worn in full dress by Royal Military College, Kingston, and Gurkhas.

Household cavalry still (? recently at least) wear them as part of undress uniform for the Musical Ride.

[centurion]

Thanks everyone for your help - just found him on the CEF database - he lied about his DOB - enlisted with DOB of 1871 !!! Must have been a fit bloke for his age.

He did get a MM too.

Well with that moustache be probably deserved it for that alone!

Obviously an early adopter of Grecian 2000

[chelleyp]

Haha I know - its a beauty isn't it?

Thanks everyone.

[Khaki]

What is the second ribbon, is that a Queens South Africa?

khaki

[centurion]

I'm wondering if he did lie about his DOB. Whilst not impossible there's a big gap between the two brothers. Could the 1857 be the error?

[robins2]

I take it you have a copy of his attestation papers??

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/cef/001042-119.01-e.php?id_nbr=149212&PHPSESSID=52n5jjfgha1g82usag3p83p4j7

[chelleyp]

Hi - yes i found the attestation papers. I would love to know what the second ribbon is as I have no clue. Dob at 1857 is correct. David was first born and Angus the baby in a a family of ten kids. Have the family bible too so no doubt about Dob.

[David B]

The first photo is much earlier than WW1. Pill box hats were introduced sometime in the 1860s (there is a photo of the 101st in India wearing them) and persisted until about 1900. From the way it is being worn a guess might be a cavalryman

I have a photo of my g/father (RGA) taken circa 1900 give or take two years and he was wearing the same type of pillbox hat, in the same manner i.e. canted to the right.

Probably were about to be phased out by then.

[chelleyp]

Thanks- will follow this one up in a different forum then. Also re David's age - have found this

The following is an extract from the “Vancouver World” (America), relative to Mr D.Q. McGregor, who has gone to the war in his 57th year: - “A well known Yukon veteran, an Australian, Mr. D.Q. McGregor, who came from Dawson City at the beginning of the war to enlist and was turned down on account of his age, under the new conditions has been accepted by the Irish Fusiliers, and has proceeded to the camp at Vernon. Splendidly qualified by physique and powers of endurance, loyal to the core and of sterling character, Mr McGregor has been greatly liked by all who have got to know him, and will, his former comrades know well, make a fine soldier.”

Looks like older men could enlist.

[robins2]

as stated on attestation papers, prior service in NSW Artillery, may be some link there??