daz79darren Posted 13 August , 2004 Share Posted 13 August , 2004 ok Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 13 August , 2004 Share Posted 13 August , 2004 These aren't in Delville Wood - unless you removed them from the wood? They are all live, and one is possibly gas. I hope you don't have them at home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 13 August , 2004 Share Posted 13 August , 2004 Looks like a contender for a "Darwin Award" to me http://www.darwinawards.com/ Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 14 August , 2004 Share Posted 14 August , 2004 Daz. Any chance of another photo with something to scale it against? Nationality-wise, from the left British , lying down - Brit. ,resting on top -German, behind- French, next(with wrong fuzecap) German, and then another Brit. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chip Minx Posted 14 August , 2004 Share Posted 14 August , 2004 Assuming that the fuzes are still on the correct shells, you should be able to determine what nationality they are by the markings on the fuzes. The driving bands on the shells indicate that they have not been fired. Be very careful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSMMo Posted 14 August , 2004 Share Posted 14 August , 2004 Great find. However, as an old artilleryman, the "British Shell" indicates to me that it has been fired (the lands of the cannon bore are grooved into the rotating band at the bottom of the shell). That would also indicate a dud. When I have found shells like that in the field, my first move is to EOD (Explosives Ordinance Detail) and their first move has usually been to blow it up. Unless some effort has been made by an explosives expert that would make it inert, it should be looked at by experts (i.e., EOD personnel). By the way, I have found shells that are live with their fuzes absent. Usually occurs when the firing is hot and heavy and a round gets sent downrange without a fuze in it! The "Biggest one" looks almost as if it still has the protecting band around the rotating band which indicates it was never prepared for firing. That's just referring to modern artillery rounds, as I really don't know that much about WW1 ammunition. I would be concerned, though, about the corrosion around the base of the shell. Chemicals from the explosive or other contents could have caused that from inside indicating instability. Artillery is the biggest killer on the battlefield and those rounds are a good part of the reason why. Mike Morrison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 14 August , 2004 Share Posted 14 August , 2004 These shells were found in Delville area and kept as the best examples of the types used in the area. None are live as far as I am aware, and all have had their fuses removed. If thats not the case then I really should not have been setting them up for a photo shoot lol. I repeat, do you mean YOU found them in the wood, or bought them from someone who had? Some of the shells in your photo have not been fired, so either you have deactivated them, or someone else has. Or they are still live... can you take the fuses off and look inside? I wouldn't recommend doing that if you haven't already, or don't know for sure if they are empty. I would also remind you Delville Wood is a memorial site, and effectively one large cemetery - and that it is against the law to go digging in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 14 August , 2004 Share Posted 14 August , 2004 This sought of thing has appeared before. I will make no aplologies for this, but DO NOT go touching any sort of munitions however innocuous they may seem. I will repeat my warning on an earlier thread of this nature - MUNITIONS WERE DESIGNED TO KILL AND STILL DO! By all means photograph them but that is it! Please do not post photos on this site if you are holding munitions, it sends all the wrong signals! Terry Reeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGEL Posted 14 August , 2004 Share Posted 14 August , 2004 Daz/Darren Whats the point of your study of metal toxicity of the old battle fields when they have been used for farm land for the past 85 years, so surely if the ground was toxic half the population of those areas would be dropping like flies or have 2 heads. I also saw a programme where the ground of these sites is extremly fertile and mineral rich due to all the bodies and bone meal and munitions that has been added to these areas by the events that we are interested in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 14 August , 2004 Share Posted 14 August , 2004 I have posted something similar in an old thread: It is the recklessness of the young to believe nothing can happen to them -everything is safe. Those who know about possible effect of duds and UXOs pray to the non-experts: never touch any such ammunition/ammo parts. We in the military have strict regulations by reason, thus respect for UXOs. Only expert EOD teams shall handle above shown ammo. My advice: have the stuff disposed of properly - you don't know in what danger you and your family live!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Tulloch-Marshall Posted 14 August , 2004 Share Posted 14 August , 2004 Whats the point of your study of metal toxicity of the old battle fields .............................. I cant help wondering if any part of .. hook, line, and sinker .. is appropriate regards - Tom (who is envious, because my parents could be no more imaginative than christen me after a grandfather, rather than let me have an "interesting" name like zoobzibdab or mingleplop ........................................ etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGEL Posted 14 August , 2004 Share Posted 14 August , 2004 OK Tom, i admit i havent a clue what you are on about, ( thats the mild version ) if i have missed something then i put my hands up-----if i have done another howler i can laugh with the rest, but i have read it now around 5 or 6 times so if i still cant see it i will have another couple of cans, but then at the present it seems only you know the joke , so please explain !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnreed Posted 14 August , 2004 Share Posted 14 August , 2004 Daz The photo of the largest calibre of the i.e. the last photo I do not think that this is British as I have looked through my references to driving bands and for as shell of that calibre it should have a Broad Vavasseur Band. Can you put some calipers on to get the diameter. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 14 August , 2004 Share Posted 14 August , 2004 Your right Paul, it is against the law to go digging in a memorial site. Thats why I strongly recommend you obtain permission from the CWGC and the South African Embassy like I have. The shells are completely safe and are being used as part of my studies into trace metal toxicity from battlefield munitions. Hmm... very interesting. When I spoke to the curator of Delville Wood museum this evening, he had no knowledge of anyone being allowed to dig in Delville Wood. You still haven't mentioned how you came by these shells or how you managed to diffuse unfired artillery rounds, if of course you have. Please, like other posts of this nature, let this be a warning to people; no matter how safe you think these objects, they are deadly and still to this day kill people every year. The details of how several 'collectors' I know perished would make your stomach turn. Let us not see any more victims of the Great War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGEL Posted 14 August , 2004 Share Posted 14 August , 2004 Daz/Darren I understand what you are saying, and know the effects and origins of heavy metals from some of the work i have done but the point i am making is-----------Its been 85 years, of producing food from this area, surely the effects of ground pollution would have long shown up and we have known of say Lead poisoning for god knows how many years so arent you like ( and this is a crap example but the only one i can put into words now ) ---getting another lung cancer victim who smokes and testing his fags to see if they cause lung cancer 50 years after it had already been determined that fags killed you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted 14 August , 2004 Share Posted 14 August , 2004 ........ the trick of living to be an ' old **** ' is knowing to avoid nasty things like shells. Aye Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 14 August , 2004 Share Posted 14 August , 2004 ps. I think there's a hint of ageism in this forum lol Yeah indeed Daz you're quite right: if I calculate right I am now in my 32nd year of active military duty. In response to your thread: had quite a lot of hot meals AND uncountable military courses Alright Daz, .....nevertheless....be careful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGEL Posted 14 August , 2004 Share Posted 14 August , 2004 In other words Darren they are paying you hundreds of thousands to find out when they need to put 20 ton of lime on the fields---can you get me a job at your place ?-------only joking i do understand why you are doing it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 14 August , 2004 Share Posted 14 August , 2004 I cant remember saying I dug them up, and my four years in the Royal Military Police tells me that is kind of important when making a suggestion of that nature. If you speak to Tom again can you let him know that my initial study on metals in Delville wood is complete and ill send him the results by the end of August. Very strange - maybe you just fell over them, then? With respect, these sort of mutions are not just lying around in the wood; otherwise it would be permanently closed. They can only be 'dug up' if they come from the 'Delville area', if that's what you were suggesting in your earlier posts. I shall indeed pass your comments on, as you request. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iain mchenry Posted 14 August , 2004 Share Posted 14 August , 2004 Hi Daz, I to am serving in the RMP, albeit in my last year of service. I am very shocked at your post and photos. You claim to have been in the RMP for 4 years and done more courses than hot dinners. Fair enough. I have been RMP for 14 years with a few courses myself. One of these courses I remember well was our trade training at the Police School at Chichester. I distinctly remember experienced RMP SNCO's teaching us about UXO (Unexploded Ord.) Can you remember the 4 C's? 1. Confirm 2. Clear 3. Cordon 4. Control NOWHERE in our training does it say that we TOUCH the stuff. I have had plenty of operational experience in the Balkans X2, Middle East, Sierra Leone and Northern Ireland to realise that this stuff kills and witnessed it happen at first hand. You know as well as I do that there are trained proffessionals (RLC and RE EOD Teams) as well as the national EOD teams in the countries that the UXO lies, that are the ones trained and approved to handle this stuff. Since when, I beg to ask, have you heard of the army trade "RMP Ammo Tech"? To tell the truth Daz, I was really annoyed when I came on the forum this evening and saw the posts and photos you had put on the site. Especially when you claim to be RMP. Can you remember our motto? "Exemplo Ducemous" (By example we lead). Not this time...eh Iain McHenry Cpl Att, 74 Section SIB (Germany) RMP P.S. Daz, perhaps you will do me the honourable thing and email me off forum, of course, what Provost Coy you are part of. I am sure they would be Very interested to hear what you are up to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Tulloch-Marshall Posted 15 August , 2004 Share Posted 15 August , 2004 OK Tom, i admit i havent a clue what you are on about, ( thats the mild version ) Nigel .......... thanks also for your message off-forum. Dont worry too much if my offhand comment ref hooks lines and sinkers sailed straight past you because most of the rest of this thread seems to have similarly sailed past ..... quite a few people. I would stress that I havent got a clue who the original poster was or is, assuming always that "Daz" is a real person ....................... but if you really do exist, Daz, then thanks for prompting a mild chuckle. It wasnt outstanding "humour" by any means, but nevertheless ................. Least said, soonest mended. The "big shell", by the way, isnt really a shell at all - its a 250mm mortar round. regards - Tom (still labouring under my own name) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGEL Posted 15 August , 2004 Share Posted 15 August , 2004 TOM AND EVERYBODY ELSE Thanks for replying Tom, i was never on about any munitions at all, but i like to think i have a good sense of humour and will laugh at most things and dont mind someone taking the piss out of me either as long as i can do the same. but i have to admit you have me with this one, i dont mind you all sitting there roaring at me untill your sides split, but i do wish somebody could explain whats funny here, i know Daz is a spit for Bacon bloke ( Cocaine Addict from Blue Peter ), but i am at a loss here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIGEL Posted 15 August , 2004 Share Posted 15 August , 2004 The phantom deleters been at work again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 15 August , 2004 Share Posted 15 August , 2004 I believe that daz79darren may have deleted the text and image from the first post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz79darren Posted 15 August , 2004 Author Share Posted 15 August , 2004 yes sorry deleted image due to the messages going off the topic, my question is a genuine one though Daz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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